IBC 2009 review

[Charles King]

For the record, my review that was mentioned above is here.

 

I think it's fairly clear that I didn't consider the L'Aigle products so much "fantastic" as a worthy contender; as CK writes, they are thinking outside the box and not just making another cookie-cutter knockoff but trying some different approaches to the subject of stabilization. As I noted, the latex band design does present some challenges but in terms of pure isolation and ride, the operation of their arm is remarkably smooth--an attribute that very few of the inexpensive arms are able to achieve. As we know, the two most important components of a stabilizer are the gimbal and the arm; while low-end gimbals have improved considerably over the years, most of the arms out there still present a rough ride that barely contain the operator's footsteps, let alone invite smooth booming. In terms of pure operation, I'd be hard pressed to think of an arm in that price range that performs as well as the L'Aigle (the Pilot/Flyer/G-series arms representing the gold standard for small stabilizers).

 

There you go Pierre. I knew what CP wrote and now he has made it more clear. Everyone will have a critical view of things, especially equipment like this. Like I said. What does not suit me, will suit someone else. I stated that in my review. I'm sure your customers are happy with their purchase and business is going well but I am just not convienced - Yet

Edited September 22, 2009 by Charles King

[JobScholtze]

Same here. I did try the system out last year ( and had the same vest problems charles ) and i didnt like it at all. Didnt like the sled for many reasons. Didnt like the arm/vest connection. But found the arm idea intressting, so i had to try it. While the ride is very smooth indeed, i think the arm das flex a bit with heavy loads. But then again, its not made for heavy loads. I for one, found the arm to springy for my taste. ( MY OPINION ) But my main concern is that imo it would be better to take all the comments you get from operators and take it to consideration. While i got the feeling back then that it only pissed them off. So i walked away this year and save the energy.

 

But again, cuddo's for a different approach, its just not my cup of tea, but find it intressting where it leads too.

[Pierre Davezac]

My main concern is that imo it would be better to take all the comments you get from operators and take it to consideration. While i got the feeling back then that it only pissed them off. So i walked away this year and save the energy.

But again, cuddo's for a different approach, its just not my cup of tea, but find it intressting where it leads too.

 

In fact, we are not big fans of this habit of making silly jokes, especially from people who usually stand 10 meters away from our booths and products. Imagine someone going on all Steadicam forums, calling you a "bad operator", because of your T-shirt, your shoes, your haircut, your name, but with no comments on your actual work, your frame, movements and posture. This is exactly what we get from a bunch of people after each show (less this time).

 

We hear and use constructive comments and feedbacks from our clients and operators. We talked with Charles Papert at NAB this year about the many knobs on the topstage – we then came up with an idea to remove them all with an original design… Even you, Job, who complaint about the gap at the bottom of your back while wearing our universal backmounted harness last year, led us to introduce an inflatable lumbar cushion in the rear pads...

 

Best regards,

 

L'AIGLE

www.laigleparis.fr

 

Come and visit us in:

PARIS | 10/20-10/22 | SIEL-SATIS, Booth E37,

MUMBAI | 10/29-10/31 | BROADCAST INDIA, Booth L1221,

TOKYO | 11/18-11/20 | INTERBEE, Booth 2N-25

[JobScholtze]

Thank you pierre for telling that. Good for you. And no, i aint joking about you, i said i found it intressting to see where it all leads. It aint my cup of tea, yet. Perhaps i will change my mind soon enough, you never know. I for sure will visit your stand again next year to see what happend in the mean time.

 

Best

[Charles King]

Thank you pierre for telling that. Good for you. And no, i aint joking about you, i said i found it intressting to see where it all leads. It aint my cup of tea, yet. Perhaps i will change my mind soon enough, you never know. I for sure will visit your stand again next year to see what happend in the mean time.

 

Best

 

I will tag along if they want me there. I liked the idea of the lumbar system.

[Pierre Davezac]

Looking forward to seeing you then, in NAB, IBC or elsewhere. We'll have something new, that might interest you, Job and Charles...

 

L'AIGLE

www.laigleparis.fr

 

Come and visit us in:

PARIS | 10/20-10/22 | SIEL-SATIS, Booth E37,

MUMBAI | 10/29-10/31 | BROADCAST INDIA, Booth L1221,

TOKYO | 11/18-11/20 | INTERBEE, Booth 2N-25

Edited September 24, 2009 by Pierre Davezac

[Charles King]

Pierre, I may have an idea on how you can make the arm adjustable using one soft but very strong elastic band. This will make the need to remove or add extra bands obsolete. If you're interested please let me know. You see, I'm not a bad guy after all. Just like being practical about things. ;)

[Pierre Davezac]

Pierre, I may have an idea on how you can make the arm adjustable using one soft but very strong elastic band. This will make the need to remove or add extra bands obsolete. If you're interested please let me know.

 

 

Sure, Charles, I'm curious. I think the multiplicity of latex straps is a very good technic (no risk of breaking, arm load capacity adjusted without any mechanics, hence perfectly silent, long-lasting and cost effective, easy to replace, no limited load capacity range, our arms carrying any weight up to their maximum with an equal quality of suspension...) We are working on all possible embodiments of this technic for two years, but if you surprise me, I'll send you a bottle of Champagne right away!

[Michael Sutton]

I built a tunable industrial elastic based arm back in 1994 that could hold a 28LBS camera with lift adjustment that worked very well. The problem over time was the bands would break down due to oil, etc that was needed for the other parts of the arm. I showed the arm to Brant Fagan in 1996, he said it was a nice idea. A year later I bought a Master Series Elite rig for 56k. I didn't think twice about my rubber band arm again.

 

 

The long and the short of it:..Although the industrial band arm never failed, the confidence of having a brand name arm with the support of Cinema Products (this was just before Tiffen took over) and the perception of the clients overall was more important and worth the money. My rates went up, the work was plentiful.

 

my 2cents

[Charles King]

Thank you Charles for your detailed review!

... Unfortunately I don't know of any operator except of Curt Schaller to have a Sachtler rig...

 

Cheers.

Lukas

 

There are quite a few European operators that use the Sachtler. Most are those migrating from the old GC Vi6 & and V20 systems.

[Charles King]

The long and the short of it:..Although the industrial band arm never failed, the confidence of having a brand name arm with the support of Cinema Products (this was just before Tiffen took over) and the perception of the clients overall was more important and worth the money. My rates went up, the work was plentiful.

 

my 2cents

 

This is exactly what I was trying to explain in my review. The industry is harsh, even if a system seems to work, there will always be the Client's perseption to see what is standard and what isn't. As they say, first impression is important. ;) Now, proving otherwise can be a feat initself...

[Leo N Rowe]

Here's a review I did on some known and unknown devices. Most of you high end pro's might not really care about my findings in the low end world but if it makes you feel better. Just take this review as a good read. ;) For those others, hope you enjoy it.

 

IBC 2009 device review

 

 

Charles,

 

A shame you didn't introduce yourself and acted like a "wannabe" operator, even in your posture! I understand, it's your way to prevent commercial speeches. But had you ask your questions, listed in your review, directly to us, we might have enlightened your concerns immediately.

 

We use specially made hyperelastic Latex straps, with a special process during vulcanization to achieve "hyperelasticity" and make them unbreakable, at least when they are installed in our arms (you can of course cut them with a knife). That's why we offer a 10 years warranty on the straps, and replace them for free, no matter the cause (in two years it didn't happen yet).

Yes, it makes our arm extremely light. The new little Arm for the AIGLE TITAN weights 1,2 kg (2,7 lbs). The CHD 15kg payload arm weights 4 kg (9 lbs).

The LTX straps also make them perfectly silent - this amazes anyone who are used to old spring arms.

The fact that we don't need a payload adjustement mechanism (you just add or remove straps), make the quality of the arm "undying". No play, no noise can grow anywhere.

Last but not least, the boom-range is huge (84cm/33"), the isoelastic feel is great, the elasticity is impressive, no walking effect at all. See what Charles Papert wrote after NAB this year (thanks again, Charles - what we discussed about will be useful).

 

Now, your questions :

 

1. Temperature. How does it affect the strength of the elastic?

 

By high temperatures, you need to add one or two straps more than usual.

By cold temperatures, you need to remove one or two straps less than usual.

 

2. Precision placement of components when the need to quickly change the lift and/or feel of the arm / 3. Fine tuning the arm on the fly is impossible.

 

The way to do it, is to prepare the arm with a stronger payload capacity than needed. On the fly, you just have to pull one or more straps away.

 

4. The need to carry a large amount of elastic bands in a bag and taking them out on set and getting the looks from studio crew…

 

As an aspiring operator, you surely care about looks from studio crew. But this fades away in time. Besides you might want to try and explain them the great advantages of this technique.

 

5. I think, most important of all, would you trust a rented 35mm or your own very expensive camera on a system that uses elastic bands?

 

Funny question <_< . There is absolutely no chance that all the unbreakable straps break suddenly all together and that the camera on the stabilizer fall all the way down along the boom range of the arm. Even if you snick them all with a knife, the arm would just boom down and not go up easily anymore. That's all.

Our arms aren't just one piece of "elastic" - there are sturdy aluminium parts, bearings, screws all around!!

There are a lot more risks to see a spring breaking, and pieces of metal flying through the air directly into someone's eye.

Besides, our CHD system accepts 15kg payload. It doesn't suit most of 35mm cameras.

 

As for the backmounted vest, you absolutely have to adjust it for each bodies, as accurately as possible. Hence the minutes you waited for us to set the harness to your size. But once it is done, you don't have to do it again.

Now vests or harnesses are a very personal matter. For your XXL body, we would have proceed with other fine-tuning adjustments. But this takes time. And you were on the run and didn't really want to give the products a chance.

 

Anyway, we couldn't imagine anyone of this little world, outside of experienced operators like CP who have nothing to proove, saying that our "Not-Steadicam", not expensive products are just great, maybe this or that to improve, like for everything else on Earth, but great. That's not a problem for us.

 

Now, we know your face! Next time, we'll be able to talk to you properly.

 

Thank you for your response. You have stated some good points and i appreciate it that you took the effort in explaining them to me.

Yes, i could have come out and asked the pertinent questions i wanted answered but quite frankly i just forgot about it when you guys tried to fix the vest. I understand backmount are difficult to get right to fit everyone but i still felt there was something that did not feel right. I wanted to try the front mount but that was a problem. If Charles Papert thought your system was fantastic then all power to you. I too respect Charles review very much regardless of how he protrays the product to be. Nonetheless i still do not like the sled or the backmount. As for the arm, i have already explained myself. As my review states, it is a personal review and if someone else gives another review saying that they prefer the rig over a steadicam or glidecam then good for them. Read my review again. I am not saying your product is bad. Your choice of methods is what has given me second thoughts. It is great to see innovation.

 

Hey Charles,

 

Ive read your reviews and they've been very insightful. I am just about to purchase my first camera stabiliser and I see you have a wealth of experience with these lower weight systems. I am currently considering either the Glidecam x-22 or the Steadicam Flyer LE. I was wondering if I could get your advice on which system you think would best suit a beginner working with a variety of HD and 16mm cameras?

 

Many thanks!

[Charles King]

Hey Charles,

 

Ive read your reviews and they've been very insightful. I am just about to purchase my first camera stabiliser and I see you have a wealth of experience with these lower weight systems. I am currently considering either the Glidecam x-22 or the Steadicam Flyer LE. I was wondering if I could get your advice on which system you think would best suit a beginner working with a variety of HD and 16mm cameras?

 

Many thanks!

 

Hi Leo. As other would say, it's been covered many times over but I will answer you any way. :)

 

My choice as you posted:

 

1. Flyer LE. Nothing can touch the arm in it's weight class and price range. The LE has been redesign and is not the same as the first generation Flyer. It can handle up to 8.6kg, but can handle a little more. For performance wise, the flyer is the ultimate system in it's price and weight class.

 

2. Glidecam X-22. handles more so in this respect it has one over the GC. But performance wise, the flyer takes the lead.

 

Things I like about the Flyer LE:

 

1. The vest is comfortable

2. A proper socket block, so to speak. Has the same adjustment as the standard size socket block on the high end models.

3. Arm behaves almost like a Pro arm ( in short. The arm responds is simply superb)

4. A fantastic Gimbal that's absolutely friction free

5. Tool free stage fore and aft adjustments.

6. HD / SD-SDI monitor GC X-22 does not have this option. ( another reason to go for the Flyer)

 

The biggest selling point for the Flyer, all models is the Arm.

 

The Glidecam X-22 has been improved, the last time I spoke to David. The problem was it was over responsive. It continued to reactive even when one came to a complete stop. But like I said, it seemed they have ironed it out. Though I have not tested it yet. The sled of the GC has also has a tool free stage. The lower bottom stage can only be adjusted fore and aft on the front side. The Flyer does not have the ability for fore and aft, which is a shame. another big advantage which you will benefit from is that the LE has 24v option, which is perfect for your 16mm camera. The Glidecam X-22 does not have this option. So that should be another reason to go for the Flyer LE.

 

I think you should take a workshop and decide for yourself. This way you will know exactly what you are getting for your money. Oh yeah, and learn great skills from the masters. :)

 

Remember both system are good and can achieve thejob you want but only of them can go the extra mile regarding options, performance without the strain of trying to get from A to B.

 

As usually this is my opinion and does not speak for the rest of the great high end operators on this board. Just remember you have to buy a rig that will suit you and can the job done according to your needs and not some else's. Every operator has his or her needs. What feels right for me is not the same for someone else.

Edited December 27, 2009 by Charles King

[Charles King]

Hey Charles,

 

Ive read your reviews and they've been very insightful. I am just about to purchase my first camera stabiliser and I see you have a wealth of experience with these lower weight systems. I am currently considering either the Glidecam x-22 or the Steadicam Flyer LE. I was wondering if I could get your advice on which system you think would best suit a beginner working with a variety of HD and 16mm cameras?

 

Many thanks!

 

Hi Leo. As other would say, it's been covered many times over but I will answer you any way. :)

 

My Nr. 1 choice as you posted:

 

1. Flyer LE. Nothing can touch the arm in it's weight class and price range. The LE has been redesign and is not the same as the first generation Flyer. It can handle up to 8.6kg (camera weight of course), but can handle a little more. For performance wise, the flyer is the ultimate system in it's price and weight class. Glidecam X-22. handles more so in this respect it has one over the GC. But performance wise, the flyer takes the lead.

 

Things I like about the Flyer LE:

 

1. The vest is comfortable

2. A proper socket block, so to speak. Has the same adjustment as the standard size socket block on the high end models.

3. Arm behaves almost like a Pro arm ( in short. The arm responds is simply superb)

4. A fantastic Gimbal that's absolutely friction free

5. Tool free stage fore and aft adjustments.

6. HD / SD-SDI monitor GC X-22 does not have this option. ( another reason to go for the Flyer)

 

The biggest selling point for the Flyer, all models is the Arm.

 

The Glidecam X-22 has been improved, the last time I spoke to David. The problem was it was over responsive. It continued to reactive even when one came to a complete stop. But like I said, it seemed they have ironed it out. Though I have not tested it yet. The sled of the GC has also has a tool free stage. The lower bottom stage can only be adjusted fore and aft on the front side. The Flyer does not have the ability for fore and aft, which is a shame. another big advantage which you will benefit from is that the LE has 24v option, which is perfect for your 16mm camera. The Glidecam X-22 does not have this option. So that should be another reason to go for the Flyer LE.

 

I think you should take a workshop and decide for yourself. This way you will know exactly what you are getting for your money. Oh yeah, and learn great skills from the masters. :)

 

Remember both system are good and can achieve thejob you want but only of them can go the extra mile regarding options, performance without the strain of trying to get from A to B.

 

As usually this is my opinion and does not speak for the rest of the great high end operators on this board. Just remember you have to buy a rig that will suit you and can the job done according to your needs and not some else's. Every operator has his or her needs. What feels right for me is not the same for someone else.

 

It'll be nice to know your budget and your max weight limit, if weight is an issue for you.

Edited December 27, 2009 by Charles King

[Leo N Rowe]

Hey Charles,

 

Ive read your reviews and they've been very insightful. I am just about to purchase my first camera stabiliser and I see you have a wealth of experience with these lower weight systems. I am currently considering either the Glidecam x-22 or the Steadicam Flyer LE. I was wondering if I could get your advice on which system you think would best suit a beginner working with a variety of HD and 16mm cameras?

 

Many thanks!

 

Hi Leo. As other would say, it's been covered many times over but I will answer you any way. :)

 

My Nr. 1 choice as you posted:

 

1. Flyer LE. Nothing can touch the arm in it's weight class and price range. The LE has been redesign and is not the same as the first generation Flyer. It can handle up to 8.6kg (camera weight of course), but can handle a little more. For performance wise, the flyer is the ultimate system in it's price and weight class. Glidecam X-22. handles more so in this respect it has one over the GC. But performance wise, the flyer takes the lead.

 

Things I like about the Flyer LE:

 

1. The vest is comfortable

2. A proper socket block, so to speak. Has the same adjustment as the standard size socket block on the high end models.

3. Arm behaves almost like a Pro arm ( in short. The arm responds is simply superb)

4. A fantastic Gimbal that's absolutely friction free

5. Tool free stage fore and aft adjustments.

6. HD / SD-SDI monitor GC X-22 does not have this option. ( another reason to go for the Flyer)

 

The biggest selling point for the Flyer, all models is the Arm.

 

The Glidecam X-22 has been improved, the last time I spoke to David. The problem was it was over responsive. It continued to reactive even when one came to a complete stop. But like I said, it seemed they have ironed it out. Though I have not tested it yet. The sled of the GC has also has a tool free stage. The lower bottom stage can only be adjusted fore and aft on the front side. The Flyer does not have the ability for fore and aft, which is a shame. another big advantage which you will benefit from is that the LE has 24v option, which is perfect for your 16mm camera. The Glidecam X-22 does not have this option. So that should be another reason to go for the Flyer LE.

 

I think you should take a workshop and decide for yourself. This way you will know exactly what you are getting for your money. Oh yeah, and learn great skills from the masters. :)

 

Remember both system are good and can achieve thejob you want but only of them can go the extra mile regarding options, performance without the strain of trying to get from A to B.

 

As usually this is my opinion and does not speak for the rest of the great high end operators on this board. Just remember you have to buy a rig that will suit you and can the job done according to your needs and not some else's. Every operator has his or her needs. What feels right for me is not the same for someone else.

 

It'll be nice to know your budget and your max weight limit, if weight is an issue for you.

 

Thanks for the reply! I think your right, I should definitely try them both out before making my decision!