Titan HD

[brooksrobinson]

Jens,

 

You’re right, there is a discrepancy in price, but I agree with Alec in that I’d really prefer that the transmitter be able to work on both film and HD jobs as I’m still 90% 35mm at this point. It would be a shame to have it sitting in the case on most of my gigs. Perhaps I'm missing something.

 

I’d love to hear more about your new Titan HD set-up when you’ve had some time on set with it Chris. It sounds great. As Charles stated, I don’t believe that Transvideo will be selling them in the States for a while. Noel at Transvideo told me he didn’t think they’d be available until after NAB in April.

 

It would be great to hear/see how all three units perform in a side by side comparison test like Charles organized in LA with monitors. I suppose that won’t happen here in LA until after NAB – but does anyone have a way of organizing such an event in Europe, where all three systems seem to be available? It would be interesting to hear about the results.

Thanks to all who chimed in.

 

Brooks Robinson

[chris fawcett]

Hi All,

 

I'm trying to organise a comparison. Job has offered to bring along a Camwave, but I don't know anyone locally with a Boxx. As I mentioned before, I conducted ad hoc tests on these 3 systems, and while I did like them all (I think you will be very happy with any one of them), the Titan was the most convincing for me in terms of range, functions, and stability. That's why I went for it. However, nothing compares to a side-by-side comparison, so I'll do my best to make that happen soon.

 

I originally intended to get the 'light' version, but your earlier posts, Alec and others, swayed me to opting for the full version. I'm happy for that advice. Now I have it all in one small Peli: HD/SDI 1080i 23.94 to 60, 1080p 24 to 30, 1080PsF 23.98/24, 720p 25 to 60; SD/SDI 525i/625i; SD (Comp) PAL, NTSC, SECAM. I can transmit stereo audio (analog or SDI), tally, and RS232 data (don't ask—I'll tell you when I've figured that one out).

 

I'll also try mounting the Tx horizontally on the base of the rig, as requested, to see if the signal is compromised.

 

All the best,

 

Chris

[brooksrobinson]

Sounds good Chris. Thanks for trying to make it happen. I’m sure there are a lot of people who will be interested in hearing the results.

 

Brooks Robinson

[Wolf Seeberg]

A roundup of all transmitters, HD and SD, 21 pages. This is a private document of personal opinion:

http://wolfvid.com/datasheets/faq_on_video_transmission.pdf

thanks Wolf Seeberg USA 310 822-4973 tech@wolfvid.com

[chris fawcett]

Hi All,

 

Here is a rough first report on the Titan HD. I haven't been able to organise a proper test yet.

 

I used it in SD mode out on the streets with the Rx on top of a C-Stand, and got a reliable signal 95m (310ft) line-of-sight. through slight obstructions like passersby, trees, and the occasional car. The orientation of the Tx didn't seem to affect the range, though that's something I need to test further.

 

In single-channel mode (where Tx and Rx are locked into the same channel), the signal would hold better in specific directions, up to 120m (nearly 400 ft), but was unpredictable. In Auto mode, where the units scan up to 32 channels (you can limit this number in various ways), the signal seemed more reliable. I didn't get much of a chance to monitor the picture, but by all accounts, it was good—completely solid until the drop.

 

More soon,

 

Chris

[Guest Jeremy Hawkins]

A roundup of all transmitters, HD and SD, 21 pages. This is a private document of personal opinion:

http://wolfvid.com/datasheets/faq_on_video_transmission.pdf

thanks Wolf Seeberg USA 310 822-4973 tech@wolfvid.com

 

 

Wolf is the go-to guy for information on wireless equipment. I would love his opinion on the new Starlink equipment and how it stacks up against the others!

 

Jeremy Hawkins

President/CEO

AV Wireless Technologies

http://www.avwirelesstech.com

[chris fawcett]

Hi All,

 

Thanks to Camalot (a local facilities company), I gave the Titan another ad hoc test yesterday with DoP Mick van Rossum.

 

Mick was keen to buy a Camwave, but was interested in the Titan, so we ran them alongside each other with a variety of HD-SDI signals, including one from a RED. At this stage, I should say it is hardly a fair comparison. The Camwave is obviously intended for supplying a director with a picture on a hand-held monitor, and given its limitations, it did very well. The test was carried out in an industrial area, so the reduced range of the unit as compared to the city centre conditions (and indoors at the IBC exhibition hall) I experienced previously (in excess of 100m (300ft)) may be due to interference or lack of fortuitous reflections.

 

Reliable working range outdoors among loading and unloading vehicles was about 50m (165ft) for the Titan, and about 30m (100ft) for the Camwave. Indoors, through partition walls, and around operating test equipment and milling people, the Titan consistently had the edge on the Camwave, though the difference was less pronounced. When the signals dropped, the unit scanning fewer channels would pick up first. When each unit was locked to one channel, the Titan recovered around twice as quickly as the Camwave.

 

With the Camwave, the image seemed to compress more as the range increased, though this is only a guess at what I was witnessing on the monitor. The Titan had the same uncompressed look up to its limits. To my eye, there was no latency, though a resident Camalot tech claimed that the Camwave had a 2-frame latency, as opposed to 1 frame on the Titan. A passing AC chipped in that this was, after all, twice as much delay, and he would not want to pull focus via the Camwave. I can offer no comment on that opinion—I include it only for your consideration. The selfsame AC then rigged up a Scorpio and placed the receiver directly on top of the antennae of both units to check for possible interference. There was none. The tech then mentioned that they had "gone through" a number of Camwaves which had apparently burnt out on them. However, given that this is a rental company, it is no surprise that they "go through" units. Has anyone else heard anything about the Camwave's reliability?

 

I think it was Thomas that requested I try the Titan mounted low and horizontal. The results were not what I had expected. At a range of about 15m (50ft), I turned 360s with the Titan at shoulder height, while Mick measured about a 10% loss of signal as the Tx passed behind my torso. When in low-mode position, the signal dropped about 5%, and a further 5% passing behind my legs, adding up to about the same—so no great disadvantage in mounting the unit below, depending on circumstances, and other obstacles, obviously. When I swiveled the unit to the horizontal, there was no further loss of signal when passing behind my leg, presumably because a leg bone cannot fully eclipse a horizontal antenna. The result, in this impromptu test, suggests there may be benefits to mounting the Tx low, in circumstances where you are going to get yourself and your vest (and the camera? the arm?) between it and the Rx.

 

Previously with the Titan, I had noticed that if you are working a particular area, it is a good idea to seek out the strongest channel, and to lock the units to it so that if you have a signal drop, recovery is almost instantaneous when you are within range again. Obviously you need the luxury of time to do this. I suggested to Jacques that he might include a "Search & Lock" function, where the system scans the available channels (like I said previously, you can limit this number in a variety of ways from 32 down to a handful) for the strongest one, then locks Tx and Rx to that channel. A few days later, I received a software update with this strategy enabled. In this mode, a single button press restarts the process, which when scanning 7 channels, takes about 5 seconds. This proved in the test to be a solid operating procedure. When dealing with Transvideo, I appreciate that my suggestions as a customer are treated seriously, and I know that if I come up against a limitation with the product in the future, I will be assisted in overcoming it. The next software update will include linking the Rx and Tx menus so that either can control the parameters of the other. Beyond that, is Rx-based SDI to composite downconversion, so you can (as Jens suggested) use an SD RF transmitter to rebroadcast the signal for hand-held TV tuners.

 

Unlike the Camwave, the Titan also transmits composite video, two channels of analogue (or SDI) audio, timecode, Cooke lens data, tally, RS232. The choice between the two is really one of functionality. The Titan is a cable cutter.

 

That's about it. If anyone has any other exotic test requests, I'll be happy to try them. And Mick? He called Transvideo on the spot to place his order.

 

Chris

[JobScholtze]

Sounds like you had fun, sorry i missed it. About the camwave. It sure has latency of less than 1 millisecond. Not the 2 frames. I dont know what happend there, but i am using this unit for some while now and am pretty sure its around 1 or less. Perhaps if the signal almost drops, its gonna get higher, dont know about that. We pull focus on hd with it, with no problems at all. Some lcd's give you some latency as well, perhaps?

 

I had a few reasons to get the camwave. The range isnt a big deal for me. I get 30m easy ( depends where you are of course ) The director isnt 50 meters away from me, becose then he has to walk to the set to much, lol. So range isnt the biggest issue. Sure its nice if it can do 50 or more, but i never needed that, if i do, i leave the reciever close to set and pull a bnc cord to videovillage, problem solved. Second reason is the reciever. I find the transvideo reciever a bit big. 4 antannas, big unit etc. The camwave reciever clicks on the back of my hd monitor and i am ready to go. And at least the price. The camwave is almost 50% cheaper than the transvideo. Thats a big issue too. The camwave is light, easy and after 6 month daily use, i still didnt find any problems.

 

I love the transvideo stuff, i really do. I just find there units to expensive for what it das.

I am more curios how the transvideo holdsup to the boxx, wich is in the same pricerange and dasnt have a latency at all.

[chris fawcett]

Hi Job,

 

Pity you didn't make it!

 

All the best,

 

chris

[Mark Britton]

The tech then mentioned that they had "gone through" a number of Camwaves which had apparently burnt out on them. However, given that this is a rental company, it is no surprise that they "go through" units. Has anyone else heard anything about the Camwave's reliability?

 

I'm curious if others have negative experience with Camwave's durability in the field as well. Interesting product for the price, but I've been a bit hesitant settling given an experience or two. I worked a feature October 2009 that shot with a RED One and used a Camwave. Hired for Steadicam, but ended up working more days day playing as sound recordist (family emergency happened to recordist), which gave me another look at the Camwave I wasn't expecting. Camera, Camwave and video village was an DIT/owner rental package. There was an insistence on feeding audio through the camera and Camwave to video village and director monitoring, instead of a hard wire direct from audio. Unit had probably only been rented when the DIT/owner was present on set, so I'm sure the unit had been treated gently overall.

 

Camwave seemed to work well outside. Heard something about trouble with dropouts in a chase van following an actor driven car, but I ain't gonna blame a piece of hardware for poor judgment of its two legged masters.

 

Early in the production, the RX unit smoked, and apparently shorted power through the HDSDI feed to monitor. Okay, exact form of death is speculation on on my part, but whatever happened, it apparently took one of the HDSDI ins on the monitor it was plugged to with it. So new RX unit by day 3, and a monitor repair.

 

We were shooting indoors in an old farm house, probably built around 1900. Neighboring houses more than 1/4 mile away, a broadcast tower approximately 2 miles away. Camwave was commonly asked to penetrate through 1-2 wood and plaster walls. Ranges of 20 feet or less. Had odd dropouts where the picture wouldn't come back. Repowering the TX was needed sometimes to bring picture back, repositioning units didn't always relock signal. First they thought maybe battery issues, because a fresh battery seemed to "fix" the problem, but then they realized it was just the act of repowering the TX. TX unit was powered with a dedicated battery, no attempt to feed a RED One through it.

 

Had a few of instances of no audio to directors. Path was perfect to recorder, checked out at camera. Rechecked cables. Tested complete signal path except camera to Camwave and Camwave RF link. So I asked that the Camwave be examined for operation, which wasn't a popular move...they had picture, Camwave is HDSDI, so they couldn't believe that there was something wrong there. Looked for DIT/owner to see if he had another spare cable or if I could provide one for camera to Camwave, because I couldn't directly test that cable (I was an audio guy that day, no touchee camera!). Fellow wasn't right at hand, I knew the village person, she was allowed to repower the TX, so I got her to do that under the guise of a cable swap. Audio magically fixed itself. Same symptom happened 15 minutes later. Camwave had direct LoS at a 12ft range, camera was mounted on dolly, but wasn't moving when the audio dropped out. Picture there, audio gone. Asked village to repower TX first, instead of rechecking audio path. Audio fixed itself again. Happened again about half an hour later. This time the director just called out to have the TX repowered instead of going after me.

 

I'm not saying you should actually want to pass an audio channel you care about through any wireless transmitter if you can easily hard wire it. I'm just saying this is what this particular production required, and that it had some odd hiccups when run through this particular Camwave unit.

 

Could have just been luck of the draw or a unit that had been abused. But that particular Camwave subjected me to a crummy experience on set, and makes me think harder about what to spend money on.

 

Mark

[Hervé Colosio]

hi chris and all.

 

i just want to tell you my experience with the titan hd , i use the titan HD for 3 months now and i make steadicam live TV work with it.

the link was extremly robust if you stay in a safe area of 50 meters with normal antennas around the receiver. You can get more distance with other antenas i think. i've made 11 TV shows at this time with the titan HD, sport, music and news events and the titan have never break the link, the picture was absolutly exellent.

there is no delay , i've use it in multi camera setup the lip sync was the same as the câble camera. it's very important to trust in your setup when you do live TV work , small cracks in the picture are not allowed.

 

this is absolutly perfect for me.

[chris fawcett]

Hi Hervé,

 

It's great to hear such a reassuring report from the field. Thanks!

 

Do you use the signal to noise ratio trade-off (SNRTrdoff in the menu)? Mine is set to Level 1, but I haven't experimented with other levels yet.

 

Nice pic!

 

Chris

 

P.S. The Titan also transmits Horizon. I forgot to include that in the list, since that's not the kind of information I want to send to a director :)

[Hervé Colosio]

i've try other setup for SNRTrdoff to see what appen , but i think you can see realy what appen when you are at the limits near when the signal shut down . after 50 meters for me.

this setting make a ratio between details and noise (if there is some)

for what i have seen when you stay in the safty area , this setting dos not change the aspect of the picture. In the middle, level 1 is good for me.

i want to try the multiple receivers joined with one TX option. it will be very interesting for me.

 

ps : ask jacques to put a locked horizon in the RX , then the directors will be happy all the times :D

[chris fawcett]

ps : ask jacques to put a locked horizon in the RX , then the directors will be happy all the times :D

Good plan.

 

Great, I'll let you know if I have a chance to tweak it too.

 

All the best,

 

Chris

[JobScholtze]

There is the value of the titan. I wouldnt do a live tv show with the camwave for sure.