Need to step it up

[Charles Papert]

With the RED One, once you add a zoom lens, rails, matte box, RED CRADLE, RED DRIVE, RED BRICK, wireless follow focus, video down converter, wireless video transmitter, etc, etc, you can easily get up over 30 pounds, possibly over 35 pounds. That's why people here keep talking about buying a used full size rig.

 

That's a worst-case scenario RED setup, and one that should be avoided if at all possible--strip off all that dumb RED bracketry; clip on mattebox and dovetail with rods replaces baseplate and rods (especially steel 19mm!) and studio mattebox; cradle and drive eliminated by using CF cards, power the camera off the battery on the sled with appropriate cable. Paul Gardner just had my Nimblecam on a RED job and with all the necessary bits and pieces, my Flyer arm had room to spare. Not to say, however, that this is always possible or all the parts will be made available for a given job, especially low budget.

 

If money is not a concern, you could just buy a new full size rig. For example, the Steadicam Ultra2

http://www.steadicam.com/filmUltra.html

after you add in the prices for accessories (wireless follow focus, wireless video transmitter, cart, cases, etc), figure around $75K for that.

 

New U2 is $66--all of those other things would add up to at least $20K more. Most of us have spent more like $60K on accessories.

 

Also, if money is an issue and you know that your RED will use still camera lenses (Canon or Nikon mount) and not the PL mount lenses, then there's a new wireless follow-focus system that's much less expensive:

http://www.hocusproducts.com/info.html

which could get the price of an Archer2 down under $30K all in.

 

Hocus Focus is not on market yet, no date set. It's dangerous to plan on a unreleased first product from a new company--just ask those who banked on the View Factor Impero.

[Dave Gish]

Hi Charles,

 

Thanks again for some great info here. Let me just make sure I've got this right.

 

That's a worst-case scenario RED setup, and one that should be avoided if at all possible--strip off all that dumb RED bracketry; clip on mattebox and dovetail with rods replaces baseplate and rods (especially steel 19mm!) and studio mattebox; cradle and drive eliminated by using CF cards, power the camera off the battery on the sled with appropriate cable. Paul Gardner just had my Nimblecam on a RED job and with all the necessary bits and pieces, my Flyer arm had room to spare. Not to say, however, that this is always possible or all the parts will be made available for a given job, especially low budget.

So if someone wants to limit themselves to digital video, like RED or F900, then it seems like the Steadicam Archer2 (up to 30 pounds) could be a good choice - yes?

 

New U2 is $66--all of those other things would add up to at least $20K more. Most of us have spent more like $60K on accessories.

OK, that scares me a little. Not the $60K part, I sort of expected to be buying things as I went along, but $20K for a minimum accessory kit - ouch! Could you add some details to this? The Ultra2 includes a nice battery/charger package and hard cases. I was assuming a follow focus would be around $5K - $7K. For wireless video, I would probably go cheap SD to start, and then upgrade to HD later. I already have a couple of 7" wireless handheld video monitors, it's nice not to have the director or DP hovering close to you. Cart $1500. RedByte Decimator is $500. I build my own custom cables (I'm actually pretty good at that). Light rails, dovetail, etc, $2K. I know I'm probably missing something here...

 

Anyway, all this advice is really helpful for me.

[Charles Papert]

Dave:

 

Building your own cables is a big help if you can do it. I used to make simple ones, but turns out I'm the "master of the cold solder joint", so I've turned to having them done right by seasoned pro's. I've never added it up for real but I estimate my cable collection to have cost in the range of $7K. If you are not concerned about film cameras, that will save a bunch, otherwise you need power and run cables for old Arri, new Arri, Moviecam, Panavision, Aaton, plus now there's RED, Genesis--so right there that's 12 cables at $175 a pop, and theoretically you have backups of all--you see how it adds up. Of course you can live dangerously and assume you will "never" fly a given camera, and then what happens when the call comes in the night before (or the day of)...

 

Outside of the standard cables, there's a plethora of others. For complete flexibility, I like to be able to mount my transmitter or motor driver on the camera itself, so there's power cables for all of those possibilities (p-tap is the "new currency"--I've ordered a ton of p-tap cables over the last couple of years for all sorts of different devices).

 

Then there's the box of brackets and rods (sorry, can't bring myself to use the johnny-come-lately term "rails"--they've been called rods for years, don't see any reason to change now) and bushings and other stuff; the "Lego" box. Especially in these weirdo days of HD, I have to be able to jerry-rig and mount things in unexpected ways, so this box is getting a serious workout. Few grand worth of parts in there for sure.

 

Battery adaptors--I'm Anton Bauer, but occasionally I have need or reason to have to use v-mount batteries. Turnarounds from one style to other, both male and female. Garfield mount. Panavision front rod mount. Panavision bracket. Moviecam spud bracket (bought years ago, never used until I did an SL job a few months back). A bunch of different dovetail plates. A bunch of 15mm rods, different sizes.

 

$8K will buy you two BFD's (again, with HD it's critical to be able to provide remote iris, preferably separatable from the focus hand unit) but that's just the basic setup. Remember those run cables for different cameras, and powering options.

 

Cases--the rig is just the beginning. Pelicans (I'm a Storm man meself) are great but pick and pluck foam is useless after a while. Some folks cut their own foam. Many of my cases have pull out trays and custom nooks and crannies that go far beyond foaming, to make use of their height. In terms of bang for the buck, not terribly pricey but still...

 

Many other things than what I'm naming, this is sort of off the top of my head. And every operator has a different "minimum" package. I'm probably around the middle range myself--I know guys who travel much lighter and others who have twice as much. I've pruned my setup down to where I feel like I'm pretty well covered, but any time I get boned or frustrated because something's missing that would have solved the problem, it goes on a "should get" list.

 

In general, backups are where a lot of the money goes. Some folks have duplicates of everything, right down to the rig itself. Anything goes down, you get right back up again.

[Dave Gish]

Thanks Charles,

 

This helps.

 

I like Storm cases as well, currently have 4. On the East coast, I end up ordering them through this paramilitary site:

https://www.dscases.com/store/home.php?cat=1

Between that and the supercircuits site you recommended, the FBI probably has a file on me... :ph34r: LOL!

 

I actually did wiring and soldering as a living for a while, worked my way through school, MIL certified and all that, so custom cables are no problem for me.

 

I'm thinking about aiming for digital video to start (RED, F900, etc), and just doing accessories for that. But I feel uncomfortable buying a weight limited rig, so I'll probably be looking at used full sized rigs. This way I can add the other stuff when I'm ready.

 

Thanks again!

Edited October 24, 2009 by Dave Gish

[Brian Freesh]

With the RED One, once you add a zoom lens, rails, matte box, RED CRADLE, RED DRIVE, RED BRICK, wireless follow focus, video down converter, wireless video transmitter, etc, etc, you can easily get up over 30 pounds, possibly over 35 pounds. That's why people here keep talking about buying a used full size rig.

 

That's a worst-case scenario RED setup, and one that should be avoided if at all possible

 

Yeah, Dave, believe it or not you just described a 44lb set-up. Weighed it about 6 months ago.

 

And Charles, yeah, the Flyer Arm could be renamed G-30, huh? (and mine the G-32.5, oh snap)

[Eric Fletcher S.O.C.]

You should talk to Erwin Landau. He has a few very nice rigs, arms and follow focus's for sale.