Dealmaking and Rates

[Joseph Arena SOC]

I have been waiting for such a meeting for long time , I am glad Chris brought that up again ,

it`s the right time to get all together and fight for our profession ..

let` s just make that happen..

[William Demeritt]

By the definition, a large group of operators getting together to agree to a minimum price would create an actionable position, since it would be "...an agreement among firms to divide the market, set prices, or limit production." The only saving grace is that it isn't as egregious as an enclosed industry with very limited competition, i.e.- the airline industry. If all the top carriers got together and said "flights from JFK to LAX will always be minimum $350 round trip", they are guilty of anti-business practices, limiting competition and creating an oligopoly.

 

As more operators perhaps embrace the minimum rate, the group's collective decision to limit that price would become more and more auspicious, gaining the attention of anyone seeking to enforce it. As more producers hear about it, you can bet people would report operators supporting that "minimum rate".

 

Producers are determining how to spend their budget, and it's considered pro-business for them to maximize the use of that budget. Imagine if producers were not permitted to go find deals on production equipment, or couldn't create a relationship with a post house that maybe cuts them a deal down the road? Price fixing is, unfortunately, anti-competitive and anti-business.

 

I don't know if there's an easy solution. I think that perhaps a total re-evaluation of the situation is wise, as the other operators have mentioned the newer, cheaper technology, the lighter rigs, the increase in our workforce. I know lots of people who paid to law school, studied and became lawyers. I also know many who dropped out without a JD.

 

Perhaps the key here is to similarly certify Steadicam operators much like how law school or med school works? Sure, I can pay for my workshop, maybe buy a rig, but how about if I qualify my skills with veteran operators? What if the Steadicam Guild had a certification system, multi-tiered, where you prove your skills as an operator, and advance.

 

With those certifications comes a designation as a quality Steadicam operator, and THAT is something you market to producers or clients. Then those clients don't just see another operator owning a rig, calling themselves a Steadicam op. Then they see where the premium price goes: experience, endorsement, intuition and involvement. Create a "brand". Steadicam Guild Senior. Steadicam Guild Master. Create a system that relies on more than credits on IMDB.

 

As people get certified, perhaps then those people are encouraged as to what their "normal rate" should be. Make them aware of the historical price, the current price, and teach them to use their reasoning to determine if they can "do a favor". As I think Robert would agree, if you teach people a sense of business through that system ("if you cut someone a deal your first time working with them, chances are you'll be fighting a long time to get above that rate for any future gigs"), you get a smarter Steadicam operator/rental business owner. That benefits us all.

 

Ramble ramble ramble...

 

William "yak yak yak... get a job!" Demeritt

[Sydney Seeber]

Perhaps the key here is to similarly certify Steadicam operators much like how law school or med school works? Sure, I can pay for my workshop, maybe buy a rig, but how about if I qualify my skills with veteran operators? What if the Steadicam Guild had a certification system, multi-tiered, where you prove your skills as an operator, and advance.

They know...

A qualified producer knows full well what they're getting. A traditional producer wouldn't be much of a producer at all if they didn't know what they were getting for their money. The question is do they care for the situation, and that's where I think attention could be focused. A producer's not doing their job if they have no idea what a well-qualified individual brings to the table. Sometimes it matters, others, not so much. With the advent of so many, many different types of productions sprouting up these days, and so many different rigs/contraptions doing camera stabilization and similar work, sure the field can get muddled, and a formula such as that may be more effective, but on the traditional money makers I doubt there's much in the way of education needed in that category.

[Lukas Franz]

Fellow operators!

 

I justed wanted to add that we are troubled with the same circumstances here in Europe. I for myself have to deal on almost every production. Interesting to see that today more bigger productions fight more for a low price on our services. Terrible. I find myself struggling every time. And even for one-day commercial shoots they push you down. We need to keep in mind that a producers job is to keep everything as low as possible. Our job is to keep everything level - what a double meaning! ;-) I think, as Robert said, we need to learn how to keep our price level. Maybe you come up with a higher rate and let the producers deal it down to your regular rate.

 

Well, it is not possible to globalize a price policy here but just wanted to let you know that we are all in the same boat.

 

Keep level.

Lukas

[Fabrizio Sciarra SOC ACO]

Fellow operators!

 

I justed wanted to add that we are troubled with the same circumstances here in Europe. I for myself have to deal on almost every production. Interesting to see that today more bigger productions fight more for a low price on our services. Terrible. I find myself struggling every time. And even for one-day commercial shoots they push you down. We need to keep in mind that a producers job is to keep everything as low as possible. Our job is to keep everything level - what a double meaning! ;-) I think, as Robert said, we need to learn how to keep our price level. Maybe you come up with a higher rate and let the producers deal it down to your regular rate.

 

Well, it is not possible to globalize a price policy here but just wanted to let you know that we are all in the same boat.

 

Keep level.

Lukas

 

Ditto

[David Allen Grove]

Time after time people refused to make it a union matter to set a minimum price for Steadicam Operators as they didn't want to be under priced and/or have a set price... actually we reached it now... it's called scale.

 

I talked face to face with the local 600 National Executive Director while he was visiting on set about the horrible Steadicam rates.

 

I asked if there was any way the local could negotiate a "Steadicam classification" to stop this erosion.

 

His response was, "That would be really tough to do because the union would have to negotiate that, so we would have to give up something in order to get it."

 

That conversation took place back in 2005.

[David Allen Grove]

I like Robert's and Chris' idea.

 

There is no reason why the Steadicam Guild couldn't organize something.

 

We can discuss theses items during a panel discussion perhaps with a Q & A and at length during regular meetings (this has to be ongoing if it is to make a difference)

• History of rates,
  
• The importance of Deal Memos
  
• Art of negotiating
  
• Getting your Certificate of Insurance.
  
• etc...
  

Sorry, the Steadicam will not be able to negotiate rates with producers.

That would take hiring a lawyer and hiring a lawyer would cost money.

 

Let's do this thing..

 

My email: davidgrove@gmail.com

[Alfeo Dixon SOC]

Alfeo, not sure about the legal implications or where the line is drawn. I would assume there is a difference between us cueing each other in, and a hard-list of numbers for a select group.

Organization that negotiates with the producers collectively outside of IA, is the only LEGAL route to establish hard numbers that would hold water.

 

Why is it price fixing if we decide to not work for less then X-amount of money, but when the Producers sit down and decide they won't pay more then Y-amount, it's okay?

Because this is an area that is open for one on one negotiations, where being a rental house or a owner/operator. If an organization could get to the barging table with the producers and draft a legal contract, then we can have our rates established. But I doubt that would be a quick nor cheap road to go down.

 

Sorry, the Steadicam will not be able to negotiate rates with producers.

Hell, maybe I should take my steadicam in stand it on the producers desk with it's ratecard visible... atleast my rig won't give it like I usually do...

 

David, I assume you meant the Steadicam Guild will not be able to...

[Alec Jarnagin SOC]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - if the Union negotiates a Steadicam rate, it will be a HUGE pay-cut from what many of us are getting because no one will ever see a cent above "Steadicam scale" again.

 

As for classifications for various skill levels, its called a resume.

 

Sorry to sound pessimistic, but I don't think there is a magic bullet solution. The key is to communicate with each other and to raise the new guys right. Be aware of how you behave. Yes, undercutting will still happen, but lets work to lesson it. I'd add that I don't ever refer someone for work if I think they will charge to little!

[Eric Fletcher S.O.C.]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - if the Union negotiates a Steadicam rate, it will be a HUGE pay-cut from what many of us are getting because no one will ever see a cent above "Steadicam scale" again.

 

As for classifications for various skill levels, its called a resume.

 

Sorry to sound pessimistic, but I don't think there is a magic bullet solution. The key is to communicate with each other and to raise the new guys right. Be aware of how you behave. Yes, undercutting will still happen, but lets work to lesson it. I'd add that I don't ever refer someone for work if I think they will charge to little!

 

 

Amen Brother.

 

A union mandated steadicam is a bad idea and the union doesn't really want to deal with that.

 

THe problem is the lowballers who see steadicam as the way to the big bucks. Little do they realize that they will never get the big buck jobs with a rep as a lowballer.

[David Allen Grove]

Sorry, the Steadicam will not be able to negotiate rates with producers.

Hell, maybe I should take my steadicam in stand it on the producers desk with it's ratecard visible... atleast my rig won't give it like I usually do...

 

David, I assume you meant the Steadicam Guild will not be able to...

 

Yes, Steadicam Guild.. lol.

[David Allen Grove]

Right guys....

 

The union Steadicam Rate is a dead topic as far as our union goes.

 

It's as dead as the idea of bringing back the Mandatory operator position.. gone forever.

 

The NED's tone was like.. nah.. not going to happen.... ever.

 

I guess I didn't convey that point in my previous post.