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Ultra2 vs Pro GPI vs XCS2


Alex Kornreich

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Alex-

 

As one of the designers/inventors and user of the Ultra2 and its smaller cousins, I want to respond to you.

 

Each of the three rigs you are looking at has design features based on what the inventor/user thought was important.

 

Here’s my take as an inventor/user (i.e., I consider the U2 as my Frankenrig…)

 

The Ultra2 design is based on some very specific choices; one is that each and every feature must be useable by the operator in under 2 minutes, otherwise it isn’t real and won’t be used in the real world.

 

One example: The PRO superpost takes about 20 minutes or more to swap out and rebalance, so it’s not a surprise that it does not get used much. I use the integral superpost in the U2 a lot, because it’s easy and quick. I usually use it just to get a few more inches in lens height; more often to get much lower in low mode. Superposts are also nearly useless without a tilt head.

 

Another design “rule” for the U2 (and all Steadicams®): the rig should be able to take advantage of all we know about how it works: among them inertia, balance, dynamic balance, stiffness, and electrical realities. Another “rule” is no voodoo or BS or fooling ourselves (this one is often hard to achieve!). We innovate and constantly reconsider and update our designs. So on to some features:

 

Dynamic balance is severely compromised without a tilt head. 99% of the time the head is tilted 2-3 degrees, keeping the post vertical for normal shooting. In the old days, I would trim for headroom by altering static balance (which takes it out of dynamic balance, of course). Now I operate most of the time in dynamic balance (or closer to it) and the operating is both better and easier. This is extremely important for low mode, where the lens is angled up and the hand must reach below the gimbal.

 

Those that have a motorized stage love it, those that don’t, (and, again, in the old days I did not, of course) don’t have a clue what they are missing. Sure, everyone can get great results with any rig (there are great shots in Marathon Man made with the prototype). But the idea behind the U2 is to make it both easier to do great work and be more versatile. The new smart stage with the pre-programmable positions is absurdly helpful for any shot with bit tilts or rolls, and there’s the convenience of automatically re-centering you stage for lens changes.

 

The clamps have been no-tools for a long time, again, because if you need a tool, it’s going to take more time, so you are less likely to fine tune the settings on your arm or adjust your gimbal – at least all the rigs have Vernier x-y balancing for static balance, as all of us will no longer put up with the old IIIa lock and rack system.

 

BTW, fiddling with your rig and tweaking balance – or god help you, bringing out a tool – in front of actors is both distracting and annoying. Pushing a button to tweak that final balance is invisible to them and everyone else on set. Do you want to call more or less attention to yourself?

 

Other sled things: centerable in the field gimbal. Gimbal diameter not too big around – clearly it’s a preference thing. In my opinion, too big a gimbal diameter equals too much influence, and it’s harder to get you hand around a big diameter gimbal.

 

The U2 has a wider range of inertial choices (again instantly). Why not let the rig and its balance help you get the shot rather than dictate how hard you must work? With the U2 you have huge choices for inertia, lens height, monitor height. It’s an inherently light sled, with additional (tool-free) weights if you need them.

Only sled with solid dovetail base. Stands on its own base (useful for docking temporarily on a table or rock or anything reasonably flat).

 

Plenty of power and 12/24 volts all the time. We pioneered the PowerCube technology (years later others are catching up with great applause).

 

Tiffen has had HDSDI capability long before anyone else, with no breaks in the connectors from stage to monitor. UB2 is the brightest LCD monitor w/ the best anti-reflection coating. Green screens are an old technology (although the PRO and XCS monitors are excellent monitors, as was the old CP one). Viewing angles are better with the green screens, but Ithink the smaller size and lack of color makes it harder to operate well. In the old days, I learned to operate in a green and white world, and I was proud of being able to compose without color – in part because I had no other choice. The day I got the first color LCD that was bright enough for outdoor work, I left the green screen in its case, and started composing better and more sensitively in color.

 

G-70 arm vs. PRO. Both very good arms. G-70 has a slightly bigger boom range and is lighter. G-70 is no tools, so you are more likely to fine-tune the lift.

 

The G-70’s adjustable iso is good (and unique!). You control how the arm lifts, regardless of the load carried. Also, when it’s more iso, there is less penalty if you adjust the float point higher or lower than centered – i.e., if you make the arm float high, it’s still easy to boom all the way down or vice versa. IIIA type arms

are poor in this area, and get worse as the load gets lighter and lighter.

 

Vests are more personal; both the PRO and the U2 work very well and function about the same. I don’t happen to fit into the PRO vest very well (this was a surprise to me, I did not expect that), but that’s NOT a consideration for YOU. The U2 vest is very adjustable w/out tools – good if you are going inside and outside in a cold environment, adding layers of clothing under the vest (or years from now, selling your gear), but it’s not a big issue, certainly not as big as the FIT of the vest on you.

 

BTW, I have changed out some of the “stock” padding – thinned up the breast pad, for one. All to get a perfect fit for me.

 

The U2 vest’s quick release is a must if you are working near water or stunts. If the fit of the vests is about equal, I would definitely choose the U2 for just this reason. I’ve never used mine, but have come close several times, and operated with more confidence in hairy situations because of it. I would not get into a car without seatbelts or airbags, either.

 

There are a few other U2 vest features that I find handy. The ability to quickly raise the socket block about 3 inches (again, no-tools) is a great way to gain lens height w/out resorting to a long post or changing the rig’s balance. It’s also quick to flip from regular to goofy.

 

Hope this clarifies some issues.

 

Anyone who has spent $$ on any rig, including me, is going to feel good about the decision unless it is really bad rig – it’s literally in our DNA to think this way. If you haven’t tried the other guy’s rig, or used its features, you don’t really know and can’t judge their value. One PRO owner/operator I know calls the U2’s features “bells and whistles” in part because he isn’t using them everyday and finding them essential to working better. U2 operators use the bells and whistles all the time and consider them critical.

 

I haven’t hit on everything, but it’s a start.

 

Jerry

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Alex-

 

As one of the designers/inventors and user of the Ultra2 and its smaller cousins, I want to respond to you.

 

I haven’t hit on everything, but it’s a start.

 

Jerry

 

 

Nice ad Jerry.

 

One question though, which rigs do you see more of on shows in LA? Not tiffens.....

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Alex,

 

I too have an XCS sled and a Pro arm. I am very satisfied with both.

 

I replaced my 10 year old Pro 1 with the XCS sled about three years ago. The main reason I initially switched to the XCS was the 2” post. There is NO flex in the post when extended and NO vibration in the camera platform (donkey box) due to the fore/aft and front/back adjustments being at the bottom of the sled. This is a huge plus in the final image that ends up on the screen.

 

The electronics are sound. I’m sure I don’t utilize them to their fullest potential, but they are a marked improvement over what I’ve used in the past. The batteries drain down at the same time (swap all three at once), and there is a voltage gauge and battery percentage gauge for easy viewing, to allow you and your assistants to judge when they need to be swapped. You would be hard pressed to blow anything up with the XCS, as it delivers only the necessary voltage needed to power things like the camera, video transmitter, and Preston. No longer do I need to flip a 12V/24V switch for certain cameras. I just plug in the correct camera power cable and the sled takes care of the rest.

 

You mention the internal super post on the Tiffen sled. I don’t have any experience with the Tiffen sled so I cannot comment, but I can tell you about the XCS super post. It is 2” and is about as solid as it gets. There is NO flex with it. I can’t express enough how important this is, especially with the extended post. I have a second XCS gimble on mine, so the switch from the regular configuration to super post is relatively short. In fact, I don’t know that I’d want it to be any faster than it is, as I might be forced to use it more often (I don’t know too many people who enjoy using the rig in this mode, especially when used in low-mode). I’m glad to have it, but I’d just as soon have it stay buried on the camera truck.

 

The internal cables in the post are all as large as they should be, so there are no issues powering cameras, as are the camera power cables Greg builds.

 

To top it all off, the customer service is unbelievable. The few times there has been something wrong (usually my doing), Greg has either been able to talk me through it on the phone, or has sent me out a spare. I’m sure others will chime in about their experience with the customer service at XCS, but I’ve experienced nothing but terrific, extremely fast service, and would recommend the XCS products whole-heartedly.

 

The Pro arm is the same way. I bought mine to replace my old 3A arm. There is simply no comparison. The Pro moves as it should, without any effort through the boom range and is a fantastic product. The ability to swap out spring canisters is genius, and it is very easy to keep the arm clean. I have had very positive experiences with the customer service at Pro, and would have no problem recommending this product to anyone. Almost all of the top operators in Los Angeles use this arm, which says something about its quality and the service provided after the sale.

 

Make sure to try out the gear you are considering. All of us have different preferences when it comes to equipment, so it is best to try it out for yourself. It is good that all three companies are in LA, where I see you too are based, which will make it easy to see the different gear in person, as well as down the road when it needs to be fixed. Talk to as many operators as you can, not only about the gear, but also about the customer service post-sale. This is almost as important as the equipment you are buying.

 

Good luck with your decision. Please feel free to call or email with any questions.

 

Brooks Robinson

brooksontheroad@pacbell.net

661-287-1555

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About the additional battery on the monitor of the PRO... You can also use a Hytron 140 for your front battery along with PRO's long monitor arm and it seems to give you the same dynamic balance as the stock short monitor arm, 3 Hytron 50's and a Greenie monitor.

 

 

I have never seen a battery on the back of a PRO Monitor.

If you use a stock PRO from GPI, it will balance just beautifully.

 

If you use an LCD you might want to use an additional battery...

 

^^ Yes, that's what I'm saying. Stock (greenie, 3 H50's and the stock monitor arm) balance perfectly. If you go with an LCD (to shoot HD for example) one good option is to replace the front Hytron 50 with a 140 (which adds more weight, the kind of weight you loose by going to an LCD) and the stock PRO monitor arm with the long PRO monitor arm (which puts the monitor's CG a bit further from the post, like with the greenie). The added benefit, is that you can leave your LCD on pretty much all day and never run out of battery.

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make sure you test the customer service as well......downtime get's expensive, really fast......

 

i never had to leave my PRO Rig/Arm at GPI, I could always wait there for them to fix it.

 

"UB2 is the brightest LCD monitor w/ the best anti-reflection coating." ...very subjective statement, I'm sure Marianne sees it very differently.

 

For non HD capable monitors the Lumavec Blackbird was clearly more visible in bright daylight/ full sunlight and has with 640x480 pixel at 6.5 inches a very comparable resolution.

 

 

please refer to the ongoing post about the daylight monitor shootout for more information.

 

shootout

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Hey Ron,

 

It's a general misconception that the Ultimate is a "heavy rig". It seams so... Mine is 19.2 Lbs, sled only no batts, Ergo handle with attached Preston MDR. Only rig weights in at 17.4 Lbs. Please make a note of that.

The philosophy behind the design is that 95% of the weight are below the gimbal with a very short distance from the gimbal to the Camera plate which is achieved by eliminating any adjustments on the top. This keeps the rig very short... PRO has the Junction box and the Donkey box on top, the Ultra has multi post, tilt stage and the motorized camera platform on top... don't for get the weight distance ratio of 3 to 1 between the bottom and the top of the rig.

 

I like it short, that's why I cut it down to 16 inches and I can still fly a fully loaded 535B.

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^^ Yes, that's what I'm saying. Stock (greenie, 3 H50's and the stock monitor arm) balance perfectly. If you go with an LCD (to shoot HD for example) one good option is to replace the front Hytron 50 with a 140 (which adds more weight, the kind of weight you loose by going to an LCD) and the stock PRO monitor arm with the long PRO monitor arm (which puts the monitor's CG a bit further from the post, like with the greenie). The added benefit, is that you can leave your LCD on pretty much all day and never run out of battery.

The 140 on the front seems like a good solution. Personally I want the weight at the bottom if possible where it does more good. If the bottom of the pro was redesigned to allow you to adjust the batteries further forward you would have the option of flying 3 lighter batteries and still being able to dynamic balance. Is anyone using the XCS with an LCD? Does it allow enough adjustment to do this?

 

My sled uses a similar battery setup to the Ultra 2 in that the batteries are vertical on rods at the bottom. (http://www.moscowcameraman.com/images/ultra2_large.jpg) I can tuck them almost all the way in to the post if I want and dynamic balance is not a problem with my light LCD monitor on a long monitor arm. I have an additional battery plate that can slide on to the front of the rods allowing me to add an additional battery in front for a 3 battery setup if I wish to add more pan inertia. Has anyone added additional battery plates to the Ultra2?

 

Personally I don't like the batteries being so exposed at the bottom on the XCS and Pro. Setting the sled down requires resting on the batteries and in the case of a fall the batteries will be taking the hit. With my sled (http://jesshaas.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/n14832338_42441544_8261597.jpg) both times I have fallen the rods took the hit. They bent absorbing the impact and nothing else besides the rods was damaged. My sled isn't perfect but this is one thing I really like about it. I don't feel like the Ultra2 would fair quite as well in a fall but I do like the similarity of the design.

 

Back to the Pro and using the long monitor arm with an LCD. I use a rather long monitor arm on my rig. Normally the positioning is fine but it makes things much more difficult in Don Juan. Ideally when doing DJ I feel the monitor should be much close to the post. The adjustability of the XCS and Tiffen monitor arms should allow for quick adjustment for situations like this. I believe a number of people are using the XCS monitor arm on the pro.

 

~Jess

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How do people like the trim adjustments at the bottom of the XCS sled? Are they easy enough to get to for quick trim adjustment while flying the rig? It seems like technically by having the side to side adjustment at the bottom it would be difficult to achieve perfect dynamic balance. I feel like in practice this wouldn't be much of an issue but you would need to be a little extra careful to mount the camera in the right place on the dovetail plate. Any comments on this?

 

~Jess

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Jess, keep in mind that the PRO was designed with the PRO monitor in mind... the LCD thing came way later. There is a reason Tiffen does not sell the U2 without the monitor and that for me is a big draw back as a costumer... but had founded reasons in the company politics. Not going there...

 

There are a couple of guys that use the XCS with LCD... Jon Myers comes to mind... works fine... if you like LCD's that is... haven't used one yet that i liked enough to ditch my two TB-6 monitors...

 

I crashed 3 times very heavily were the battery rails got bend... I think I had one little scratch at the "impact housing" of the AB battery... again keep in mind that these batteries are not that fragile... like the older style purpose build Steadicam batteries... they are build for ENG use... I can't remember the last time I saw the guys in the field when they are news gathering, being gentile with the batteries... that's why it's called impact housing.

 

When you get a new car do you drive without the headlights on because the switch is at the other side of the steering column?

 

It's a learning curve... big enough for some that Greg is always sending out a loaner before he sells you a rig. Some people have trouble adjusting... most don't. I took a Pro Workshop a couple of years back and it was an annoyance to me that i had to reach to the top to adjust... i was instinctively reaching down...

 

If you take the time to dynamically balance... yes of course you can achieve dynamic balance if you know what you are doing... all the same rules apply... move up Hill... that will never change unless the gravity inverts and we all get sucked into space...

 

The whole idea of the XCS Camera plate is that you mount the camera perfectly on it's CG... Ted Churchill comes to mind in the EFP video and his Iris rod balancing skim... did it from day one... just didn't have the appropriate holes in the plate to actually achieve it until the XCS plate came along... the only real time I have to do any real adjustment is during lens changes... as of late with all the lightweight zoom lenses... rarely have to do that either...

 

Works for me!

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Jess,

 

You do need to be more precise with dovetail plate placement with the XCS than with other rigs. The side to side adjustment range is greater with the XCS than some other rigs (someone please correct me if I am wrong here), but because the camera weight is greater than that at the base of the rig, that extra range of movement doesn’t translate into more flexibility side to side. This isn’t an issue on a feature or series, but can be interesting on day calls until you become familiar with the rig as it relates to various cameras and accessories. It took me a while for dovetail placement to become second nature as it was with my Pro 1. It wasn’t a big deal to get used to having the fine controls at the base of the sled otherwise.

 

I fly a Transvideo 3A SuperBright with a Transvideo frameline generator on both of my XCS sleds without using an onboard monitor battery (although I bought Anton Bauer brackets for both assuming I would). I tend to have the monitor rods extended out a ways (I think I had Greg sell me longer rods than are stock), but I am very comfortable with the set up. With this, I generally fly two Dionic batteries on the rear of the sled, and one Trimpac under the post. It works for me.

 

Everyone has preferences with gear and how they like to fly it. Make sure to test any major purchase to make sure it is aligned with the way in which you work.

 

Brooks Robinson

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Erwin, I completely agree with you about the weight distribution being an important factor to consider -- as evidenced by everyone adding weights nowadays.

 

We all eventually experience equipment woes...as everyone else here has said, be sure to talk to as many folks as possible about customer service. Ask the manufacturer what they will send you if you (god forbid) crash etc...

and in what time-frame.

rb

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So I tested out the U2 today, with the fore/aft motorized stage and Ultrabrite 2 monitor, and am extremely impressed. Keeping in mind that I've only been operating about 1.5 years now, I don't have a single negative thing to say about it. I'm sure with many more years of experience ill be more discerning, but at this point, I'm amazed at what such a high quality rig can allow you to achieve (no more fighting to boom!). The G70 arm, with it's adjustable iso-elasticity, is phenomenal (again, though, this is compared to my current rig which is very springy and only holds up to 25lbs). The vest was perfectly comfortable, and the whole system, being tools free, is straight forward and logical. I also have to say that Dan, Frank (GM), and Michael at steadicam were as helpful as could be and spent a lot of time with me (over 3 hours...).

 

I've read everyone's comments several times on this thread, and am still trying to digest all of the information. What I'm finding interesting is this preference of really trying to keep the sled as short as possible, and that the XCS is more suitable for it, given it's placement of 3 batteries on the bottom, lack of integrated superpost, lack of motorized stage, and lack of a tilting stage. This allows the camera to be closer to the gimbal and still maintain dynamic balance and a proper drop time. In defense of the U2, they showed me that it's actually quite easy to mount more weight on the bottom, directly beneath the post. However I can see the advantage of having a dedicated 3rd battery down there as it certainly improves the power situation, especially if the camera/accessories can draw from all 3 batteries at once (this is correct, right?). The U2 seems almost as good in this regard as it's able to draw from 2 batteries at the same time as well with a little easy rewiring.

 

The XCS seems quite appealing in a lot of regards, but there are still 2 issues that I'd like resolved. First is the lack of a tilting stage. Because the stage doesn't tilt, this means that in super low/high mode the camera cannot be dynamically balanced due to the fact that once the camera is trimmed to the upward or downward facing angle, the post is no longer perpendicular to the ground and gravity, and therefore whip or fast pans will be off. In real world situations, is this problematic? Do you find yourself fighting to hold horizon when the camera is so heavily trimmed upwards or downwards?

 

The other issue is that of lens height. As I've stated, I'm 5'7". If I need to shoot someone who is 6'5", will the XCS have enough extendable post length to accomplish this? The U2, with it's 4 stage post, seems to excel here as there's tons of post to provide the proper counter balance when the camera is so far above the gimbal. How is the XCS in this regard with it's 2 stage post?

 

Now back to the arm, as I said, the ease of use the adjustability of the ISO/load of the G70 really impressed me. What should I expect with the PRO arm? My favorite setting for ISO on the G70 was right in the middle. How does the PRO fare in this regard? Is the ISO adjustable at all? Is the load factor adjustable in minute increments, or do you just adjust the load with different combos of springs? I'll definitely be testing it out, but would certainly like to hear from you guys.

 

Finally, regarding customer service, there seems to be quite a consensus that Greg from XCS and the guys at PRO GPI are fantastic. I got a very good feeling as well from the guys at steadicam, so maybe it's a draw for me there. Or maybe the only way to find out is after I'm in a sticky situation and need the tech support, but I can't quite plan for that now...

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Wow this is a pretty sick thread! Thought I'd chime in, Alex, I think either the Pro or the G-70 arm you will like, try both see which one rubs you right, you can't go wrong with either.

 

For the vest and sled on the other hand I would take a closer look. For either of the sleds your looking at, all will fill your needs (chose which one your more comfortable with) but what I would take the closest look at is the customer service for each. And there are a lot of great ops and a wealth of knowledge on this forum but there are probably more that are not, so I would call up as many ops that I know own these sleds and ask them if there happy with their customer service. I'm sure you'll get some cool or not so cool stories! Then I'd chose from that combined with which I just prefer.

 

For the vest still both are really good, but if I could I'd try to test both on a full day of work if not a full week of work. I realize this might be hard to muster up but maybe you know an op that's got some time off or what not, (harder with the pro unless your the same size) The way things sit or feel after a full day or week is substantially different than after 15 mins of walking around in the parking lot.

 

When all is said and done I don't think you can make a bad choice with this line up.

Whatever you pick hope you enjoy it! Fly Safe!

 

Kevin

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To answer two specific questions Alex:

 

Working without a tilt stage. Since this is a patented Steadicam component, very few PRO/XCS/whoever users will have experienced this one outside of trade shows or workshops, and as you may have gleaned from the above posts, you don't tend to miss what you never had to begin with. When this first appeared on the Master Series it made a lot of sense to me. I was even quoted in one of the ads for it complimenting this feature, even though I had recently bought a PRO...! Over the years I've though that it would be great to have for those occasions where one has to whip pan while tilted, or shooting up at a stage from the pit, or looking up someone's nose in low mode, or going up or down stairs. The tradeoff is of course more bulk up top, so it's one of those things that you have to weigh one way or the other.

 

Lens height. I too am 5'7". My preference to shoot tall actors is to use a taller armpost. This keeps the feel of the rig exactly the same, as opposed to the exaggerated effect in the tilt axis when lengthening the post (it's already the most inert axis to begin with). It can make side switches a little dicey if you have batteries and recorders and whatnot at the rear of the rig but generally it's quite manageable and it takes less time to switch out an armpost than to extend the post and re-balance. I'm a full-on armpost whore, I carry 4 lengths from 6" to 18" on the dock along with two lengths of J/F bracket for low-high mode which covers many situations.

 

As far as the PRO arm vs G70 goes, might as well test it for yourself as soon as you can so that the G70 is fresh in your mind. Don't concern yourself with features that seem to be missing on one arm or another, just see which piece of gear speaks to you, and then come on back and toss it around with the guys here.

 

Speaking of which, it's absolutely classic reading everyone's comments. Had these been presented to me anonymously, I'll bet that 8 times out of 10 I would have been able to identify the author by tone, zealousness and manufacturer preference (in some cases, even by preferred punctuation, e.g. Erwin's fondness for the ellipsis, Eric's disdain for periods at the end of his posts and my own overuse of parenthetical phrases--like, uh, this one).

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