Single take steadicam feature to be shot on RED

[Janice Arthur]

Tanner;

 

You've been absent from the responses here, probably because its not really what you want to hear about your ambitious plan.

 

I'm going to throw in a suggestion you also probably don't want to hear.

 

Why not "make history" by doing a film out of 22-23 five minute shots that are really good from a filmmaking and storytelling perspective?

 

Making a good movie is hard enough but to do it in a style of ER, which was really good filmmaking and storytelling, would accomplish a lot. You'd be the first to do that and if its a well told story using Steadicam your name would live in infamy.

 

This would do all the things everyone has suggested but be manageable for you; the crew; the actors; the director, etc. This would also allow the filmakers to use the elements of time shifting to tell the story. Sadly most stories are not good as a single tense narrative which a 'one-taker' is probably confined to.

 

The physical component of 5 min takes is hard enough, let alone being faced with many days of them. This is at least as daunting a job as you can undertake considering the REDs' issues. You'll still have to do all the working out you've planned; the gear set up; and everything else.

 

Lastly, one thing everyone here is alluding to is that your mental capacity to remember the shot is limited as you begin operating, maybe you're exceptional at this, but just remembering where you go when is too tough on a fantastically long shot.

 

I wish you well.

 

JA

[Brant S. Fagan SOC]

Janice--

 

Great points!

 

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

I am currently facing the prospect of a similar concept feature and feel just as you do.

 

What seem to have happened to great STORYTELLING?

 

You guys want adrenaline? Go watch the latest "Star Trek" feature and tell me about adrenaline--not all oners but that movie never stops and neither does the story. Great operating by Colin Anderson, SOC and Phil Carr-Foster BTW.

[Mike McGowan SOC]

That's a great idea Janice! And if you don't mind, if Tanner doesn't use your idea, I think I will......

[Janice Arthur]

Mike and Brant;

 

Thanks.

 

Have at the ideas, good that the thoughts are worth considering.

 

Mike I am tremendously impressed with your fitness abilities. None of the running or other things are easily done.

 

(As an aside I've been doing some martials arts as a core-training regimen and boy is it tremendous. I'm also humbled to learn new basic skill set of movement.

Its good for the ego too to start over sometimes.)

 

JA

[William Demeritt]

Why not "make history" by doing a film out of 22-23 five minute shots that are really good from a filmmaking and storytelling perspective?

 

I would offer two movies that already do their best to achieve just that:

 

Children of Men - Nothing on Steadicam, and while the emotional moments do tend to make use of editing, the memorable moments in the film are primarily long takes (or digitally stitched REALLY long takes). Everyone who's seen the Behind the Scenes material knows they hid the edits, the overall feel of the film slams together already long takes into fairly exciting, high tension scenes. Even still, a good friend of mine still thought the movie was "boring".

 

Irreversible - A very difficult film to watch for most anyone, I don't think you can deny the film's emotional power. Told from "end of story" to "beginning of story", I believe the whole thing plays out in scenes as short as a few minutes, or as long (and horrifically disturbing) as 7-8 minutes. I would say the scenes with high energy and nauseating camera movement would not have succeeded if they were cut up into montage. However, to try and tell that whole story in a single long take seems impossible.

 

I suggest maybe it comes down to this: if you're going to make a 90-120 minute film out of a single take, that requires that 90-120 minutes of the film's "reality" be emotional, hilarious, action packed and altogether enthralling enough to fill every second of that time. Most films take that much time to tell a story whose reality spans hours, days or years.

[Alfeo Dixon SOC]

I think the reason Russian Ark somewhat worked was because the audience was participating as a ghost... am I remembering this correctly?!? So this allows for the voyeuristic floating about to and from with and without the creepy guide.

 

Janice, Love that idea! Wish I could put it to use.

 

William, is Irreversible worth seeing in terms of technical or even how NOT to?

 

-Alfeo

[Lawrence Karman]

Respected members of this forum, why are you wasting your time responding to this BS post? The reason Tanner has not responded is because it ain't gonna happen! What idiots are going to let an inexperienced operator run around with a 4-1 for 100 plus minutes? Nobody, that's who. I've read these posts and the posting on the RED user board out of curiosity and in the the few responses Tanner has made he has demonstrated a clear lack of any technical knowledge and appears to have very limited operating experience. Until he answers some questions I don't think he deserves the attention you good people are giving him. It reeks of arrogance.

Do you own a rig? If so which one? If not will you buy one? Or rent one? Do you have a certain amount of money budgeted to buy a rig? Do you use a front or back mounted vest? Do you know the difference? Who is directing, producing, DP, what's the budget? What experience do you have? Have you tried to wear a Steadicam for even 15 minutes straight, let alone choreograph a long shot? Why have you been asked to operate this?

 

And Alfeo, spare yourself "Irreversible" . It's extremely disturbing.

[William Demeritt]

William, is Irreversible worth seeing in terms of technical or even how NOT to?

 

I will agree with Lawrence, the film is extremely[/b] disturbing, both for the explicit content but also the mechanics of the story just compounding the disturbing events. However, if you can differentiate the technical side from the film's story, I think there are numerous things that, as operators, will possibly impress or at least make you ponder how you would achieve the same shot(s).

[Tanner Stauss]

Thanks for the input so far everyone, it's really helpful and appreciated. I have a production meeting on Wednesday so a lot of things are going to be addressed and squared away. Testing and rehearsing will start soon as well. I was off on another shoot so sorry for not getting back to some of your posts right away.

 

 

If I were you I would design the shots with built in cutting points, like full frame wipes, cornering around objects, etc. whatever you can think to break it up, so if the Red goes haywire, or the lead actor forget his lines 5 min. from the end, you only need to do the last segment.

 

That's a great idea Dan, I'll bring that up at the meeting. The way the set is going to be designed I think that would be an easy thing to do. There will be a lot of walls, doorways, etc. that will be passed.

 

Something else I thought I would mention, the set: it is more or less a giant star/circle shape. different rooms make up the circle in somewhat pie slice shapes. we will always be looking inward towards the center of the set and moving around once inside a room with walls that will lift and drop off frame. There will be a dolly and track surrounding the outside of the set and when I pull out of one room I will be able to sit on the dolly for small periods that will allow at least a small amount of rest for some parts of my body. As most of you probably know sitting with a steadicam is not much different on the back strain, but will at least take weight off the legs and make the whole thing more bearable. Also the first 15 minutes or so of the shot will be outside leading into the stage and the set, including an elevator ride and a car ride.

 

 

Contact Benjamin Treplin. He shot Russian Ark as I remember.

 

Tilman Buttner shot "Russian Ark".

 

Yeah, I am very interested in speaking with Tilman. I speak fairly good German, so that helps. If anyone can help me with getting in contact with him that would be great.

 

 

Also realize that if this was a NASCAR drivers web site, you basically came on and said, "I just got my drivers license and I'm going to race and win Datyona this year, do you guys have any thoughts on how I should set up my car?".

 

 

I'd for sure go with an LCD monitor even if the whole thing was in screaming bright daylight (but that starts to become a personal opinion).

 

For the drive I'd go with a RED-Ram which is less likely to drop frames but depending on your recording mode may or may not have enough storage space.

 

Mike, I understand and completely agree with your views of "an intimate connection between man and machine". I certainly have that connection and love every second of flying a rig and being an integral part of the process. But you're right, I am asking technical advice. If someone wants to throw in a tidbit on how they would operate the shot, that's great, but that's not what I'm worried about. I'm more concerned with building the best configuration so I can bring out the best shot in my abilities. I never insinuated "winning" or beating anyone by any means. I'm not trying to steal any glory here, just utilize the experience of some of you professionals. Tell me if I'm out of line here. And trust me, I'm grateful to all the advice that's been given so far and it will be utilized.

 

Per your helpful suggestions:

 

I think I will go with a RED LCD. They have a great image, very lightweight and ~90% of the shot will be indoors. If it's too sunny outdoors, I'll rig some small cardboard shade around it or something.

 

We will not have enough space on a RED-RAM. I would've liked to have used that too, but it won't work. The Element Technica Shock Mounts do a good job with preventing drop frames on the RED Drive so I think it will be fine.

 

And I will definitely be doing rehearsals on something smaller. I might even just hand hold some of it for memorizing choreography.

 

Question: Do you happen to know if the Dionic 160's show battery read-out on the RED display?

 

Thanks Mike.

 

I just thought of this if not sure if it would work though what about IDX Steadicam Power Cubes with a hot swap adapter on the sled rather then the camera?

 

Light batteries, and if you have a steadicam sled you can put up to 4 batts on it

 

Would this work?

 

Steve, I'm definitely going to look into these. About 1.5lbs each, that's great. Thanks.

 

 

Why not "make history" by doing a film out of 22-23 five minute shots that are really good from a filmmaking and storytelling perspective?

 

Making a good movie is hard enough but to do it in a style of ER, which was really good filmmaking and storytelling, would accomplish a lot. You'd be the first to do that and if its a well told story using Steadicam your name would live in infamy.

 

This would do all the things everyone has suggested but be manageable for you; the crew; the actors; the director, etc. This would also allow the filmakers to use the elements of time shifting to tell the story. Sadly most stories are not good as a single tense narrative which a 'one-taker' is probably confined to.

 

Janice,

 

I like this idea too. Of course, ultimately, it is up to the Director and the DP to decide what will be done, I will try to be ready for whatever that is. It is a great script, and has very interesting characters. Also, like you said, there will be certain aspects of time shifting that will be incorporated with interesting set changes(moving "through" walls, stylized tunnels, etc.) and subtle digital imagery. We will be making every frame as dynamic as possible and the time shifts interesting but believable. This is the goal.

 

Thanks Janice

 

 

To the rest of everyone so far, thanks. Most of this has been very helpful. So most of you know, this is a huge undertaking for me, as it would be for anybody, I think. I am just trying to prepare myself, the equipment and the technical concept the best that I can. A lot, if not most of you, have been operating since or before I was born, which is exactly why I came to this forum so I could get the experienced advice that I was looking for. I am thankful that most of you are willing to pass on your knowledge and assist someone who wants to grow in the same industry that we all love so much. I am thankful for internet that I may reach out my fingertips and gain so much so quickly from so many different minds. And I am thankful for many other things that has at least led me to this point, which I intend to continue to surpass. I got this job how most of us got our early jobs: connections. Also, the filmmakers saw some of my work, liked what they saw and made a decision based on that. To say the least, I am very happy to be a part of this and will give it everything I have and more.

 

I'm sure I will have more questions soon. I also look forward to reporting the status of this project as it continues, however it may unfold.

 

 

Tanner

[Janice Arthur]

Hi all;

 

Why do I feel like Mrs Kenevil when she was trying to talk Evil out of jumping over the

Snake river?

 

 

 

JA

 

(Remember its only muscle and bone and we are destructible.)

[Mike McGowan SOC]

As far as I know, the Red only recognizes Red batteries. You can easily have a life meter added to your rig or you can go by the bars on the battery itself.... Although, it doesn't really matter does it? If your doing a 'oner' you will either have enough juice or you will not?

[Tanner Stauss]

You can easily have a life meter added to your rig or you can go by the bars on the battery itself.... Although, it doesn't really matter does it? If your doing a 'oner' you will either have enough juice or you will not?

 

I suppose, but it wouldn't hurt to have piece of mind at a quick glance. I will certainly go with a life meter if it doesn't read out on screen. Thanks.

[Matteo Quagliano]

Irreversible... disturbing?!? not disturbing but disturbed... I mean the guy, the director, he's disturbed, sure! Don't do it.

[Afton Grant]

You can easily have a life meter added to your rig or you can go by the bars on the battery itself.... Although, it doesn't really matter does it? If your doing a 'oner' you will either have enough juice or you will not?

I suppose, but it wouldn't hurt to have piece of mind at a quick glance. I will certainly go with a life meter if it doesn't read out on screen. Thanks.

 

I think what Mike is saying is what good will a meter do for you? If it's running low, what are you going to do? You can't swap batteries. So like he said, either you have enough to get through the entire shoot, or the whole thing is bust.

 

Peace of mind should come from numerous power tests. If the shot is 90 minutes long, I would not shoot until I'd tested the setup to repeatedly run for at least 120 minutes, 150 would be ideal....in the cold. That's with everything powered up, drive recording, transmitter transmitting, FIZ not only on, but manipulating the lens constantly. If you have enough juice for 2+ hours of solid power for everything, you should have your peace of mind. A meter would only be an unnecessary distraction at that point.

[Tanner Stauss]

Yeah, I get that, absolutley. There will be much testing. Thanks Afton.