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Mickey????


Ari Robbins

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"Why is everyone constantly dynamically balancing?

 

Sled stays the same for 90% of work, dynamically balance it once, remember where things go, sorted.

 

Same applies for the occasion where you expand things out.

 

I don't think I'd go out of my way to buy a gadget for it, it definitely isn't something that I spend a lot of time doing daily on set.

 

Rick."

 

Well said Rick. 90% of the time, if you're panning more than a handful of degrees with the gimbal (versus your body), you're operating wrong. The other 10% of the time, you'd better get it in DB as well as nuclear tested, chemical tested, pregnancy tested, and covered with Lisigav because heaven help you if you just try to wing it.

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Well said Rick. 90% of the time, if you're panning more than a handful of degrees with the gimbal (versus your body), you're operating wrong. The other 10% of the time, you'd better get it in DB as well as nuclear tested, chemical tested, pregnancy tested, and covered with Lisigav because heaven help you if you just try to wing it.

 

 

LOL. The best tool for Dynamic balance is a Sharpie.

 

That and an overeager 2nd AC

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Well said Alec. I couldn't agree with you more. Hell, half the time I don't even have time to check the dynamic balance. Usually I get started and steadicam is up. Usually when a break comes up and I have time, I will then dynamic balance the sled. It really is simple and I think adding another piece of gear to try to get it right is overkill.

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For the live tv guys the dynamic balance is important. From front walking to don juan in one shot at high speed. I cant imagine how i could do it with a rig thats out of DB. Then again, i have 2 rigs, the tv rig i dont brake apart, so its a 2 minuts build and have 100% db. the other rig is for non tv gigs, music vids, commercials, shorts etc. Then i dont bother to get db.......

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I think the thing that is maybe not clear is that the side drop test will get you into DB no matter the height of the monitor, so long as both conditions are met at the same time. (ie. the sidedrop balance and static balance).

 

This is what happens to me. After making battery adjustments to the balance your sideways drop, you obviously have to counteract that adjustment with the top stage to get back in static balance. BUT this will definitely throw off the sidedrop test slightly, so now so you have to do it once more, and then again tweak out the top stage. It shouldn't take more than two or three times back and forth to get into DB. Each time the adjustment to the batteries should be smaller and smaller, if it starts getting bigger you've overshot the sweet spot. Another tip I like is to deliberately decide to only make adjustments your battery since you usually want the monitor in your fav spot. This helps reduce the variables.

 

In a nutshell, I think both conditions must be met at the same time. It's not unlike setting the back focus of an ENG lens where you have two variables to adjust and two conditions to satisfy.

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Is the reason why some people have good luck with the Mickey and others not to do with how much Stuff is protruding from the front of the top of their topstages? J box noise cones etc.

 

Its just that if you lie the sled on a mickey a J box will create a different moment than if you spin the rig upright.

 

Look, if I get a sled with a big 5kg j box on the top and a 5kg J box on the bottom both 10cm away from the post and both 20cm away from the gimble and I spin the post in an ideal mathematical vacuum the rig will dynamically balance because both the top and bottom are imparting the same force due to rotational acceleration outwards. However if I stuck this funny sled on a Mickey it would drop like a stone because I have 10 kg of weight on one side.

 

Could this explain why Eric has such luck with this technique because he has an XCS sled with its notoriously simply topstage and Jerry Holloway is having less luck with an Ultra2 and its chunkier nose cone. (is it an Ultra 2?).

 

Maybe?

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Is the reason why some people have good luck with the Mickey and others not to do with how much Stuff is protruding from the front of the top of their topstages? J box noise cones etc.

 

Its just that if you lie the sled on a mickey a J box will create a different moment than if you spin the rig upright.

 

Look, if I get a sled with a big 5kg j box on the top and a 5kg J box on the bottom both 10cm away from the post and both 20cm away from the gimble and I spin the post in an ideal mathematical vacuum the rig will dynamically balance because both the top and bottom are imparting the same force due to rotational acceleration outwards. However if I stuck this funny sled on a Mickey it would drop like a stone because I have 10 kg of weight on one side.

 

Could this explain why Eric has such luck with this technique because he has an XCS sled with its notoriously simply topstage and Jerry Holloway is having less luck with an Ultra2 and its chunkier nose cone. (is it an Ultra 2?).

 

Maybe?

 

 

it doesn't matter. MDR's and "nosecones" are camera mass. when dynamic balancing there are only two masses, the mass above the gimbal and the mass below the gimbal. Thats it.

 

Hate to say it but DB as taught in Jerrys book is incorrect and needlessly complex. and for the record, I have Dynamically balanced Tiffen Rigs, PRO's and XCS's with my technique

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Sure Eric, I know what your saying. Actually this post has vastly improved my Dynamic balance speed. You see I rig my base of my sled a hundred different ways depending on the camera and power setup. This technique is great with a camera on board. I "Eric" it and then I spin it.

 

Eric, you are balancing with a statically balanced camera onboard. In this case an MDR/nosecone will simply become part of the camera mass whose whole is balanced on the sled.

 

Is Jerry Holloway trying to balance a sled without a camera on a Mickey? In this case is my theory in action?

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Sure Eric, I know what your saying. Actually this post has vastly improved my Dynamic balance speed. You see I rig my base of my sled a hundred different ways depending on the camera and power setup. This technique is great with a camera on board. I "Eric" it and then I spin it.

 

Eric, you are balancing with a statically balanced camera onboard. In this case an MDR/nosecone will simply become part of the camera mass whose whole is balanced on the sled.

 

Is Jerry Holloway trying to balance a sled without a camera on a Mickey? In this case is my theory in action?

 

To the wolves I throw myself:

 

Neither Eric nor Jerry has claimed to use a Mickey in this thread (as memory serves, didn't go back through) Jerry normally DB's the way we are all familiar with. Eric normally DBs the way he described in this thread, though he hasn't done it in years because he doesn't change his set-up. Both of these methods involve having a camera on the rig. Jerry tried to DB Eric's way but was unable to achieve satisfactory results. The mickey is supposed to be used without a camera on the rig.

 

Since last I posted in this thread I have tried Eric's method with an Ultra2 and had no luck. I tried once with the monitor CG above the battery CG and once with it in line with the battery CG. Both times the rig got worse as I adjusted it. I began with it falling a bit battery heavy, so I pushed the battery in. Every time I pushed the battery in, it would fall more battery heavy the next time. I have no idea why.

 

I have always been able to DB a Tiffen sled with Jerry's method, except with a lightweight monitor which ends up being a mile in front of the sled. I have never tried to DB any other brands.

 

I'm not here to refute Eric's method. He and others I have spoken to, including yourself apparently, seem to think it works great. Eric knows from several private conversations that I am still confused despite how simple it all seems to be. He has kindly put up with my apparent inability to grasp simple concepts. I'm hoping that by reporting my personal findings, others might be able to come up with ideas as to what I may have done wrong.

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Brian your troubles are being created by the camera cg if you remember our conversation.

 

You expect me to remember those? I'm sure I neglected something obvious. Maybe I just need to try again....

 

Huh, just had a thought as I was typing this. As to not look like a complete imbecile if the thought turns out to be inane, I'll wait to report my new findings. If it's correct, it does indeed involve our conversation and is indeed super obvious.

 

Damn.

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Both times the rig got worse as I adjusted it. I began with it falling a bit battery heavy, so I pushed the battery in. Every time I pushed the battery in, it would fall more battery heavy the next time. I have no idea why.

If that is the case then move the batteries out and re-static balance(move the camera in).

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