Zephyr and Red Scarlet issues

[Jim Coulter]

I think it was electrical but no way to know for sure.

 

Jim,

 

Did you step through the footage frame-by-frame? This would probably give some valuable data on the source -or at least the nature- of the problem. Were there dropped, duplicated or corrupted frames? Or actual shift/shake of the frame? Identifying or ruling out mechanical effects should have been fairly straightforward in a frame-by-frame evaluation.

 

Glad you got a working rig in your hands, though!

 

It's interesting that you ask. As a mattaer of fact we looked at the R3D red footage frame by frame using a Red Rocket. Every place there was jutter we saw the same phenomenon- every OTHER fram was blurred- not really out of focus but blurred. This continued until the area of the 'Jutter' was finished then the frames all looked normal.

Edited June 16, 2012 by Jim Coulter

[Wan Zhong Wei]

Hi everyone,

 

just had a shoot with Red EPIC, with arri ultra prime, clip on matte box, articulating arms for a DP6, V mount at the back, but no switronix adapter.

 

Exhibited the same problem as mentioned, frame was juttering when moving around corners or doing panning, the frame is perfectly fine during a lock off.

 

could it be because the weight of the red EPIC is too top heavy? and the CG of the whole camera is raised too high up? ultimately, the camera base is really small, hence a small surface area of contact point from camera system to dovetail.

 

I was using the sliding baseplate from RED and the quick release system, maybe i should lose both of that and mount straight on next time, to reduce the CG height.

 

could it be because that the post is too thin to support such a system as well?

 

I didnt get this kind of juttering problems when I was flying big broadcast cameras, nor the 5D on the weight plate, am beginning to wonder if the raised CG of the camera has a part to play with this.

 

any comments will be helpful.. thanks..

[Victor Lazaro]

Can you do a test with variable frame rates? like 48fps, see if it's still every other frames which it would mean that the camera is the culpit, or if it still happens at the same interval which might mean it's the vibration's frequency...

I also fly Epic/Scarlets on Zephyr, but i'm in NYC.

 

[edit] I also had a weird vibration thing once. Going back through the R3Ds to look for it.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Victor Lazaro

[Jim Coulter]

In response to your recent post regarding your 'stutter' issue. My issue was not cause by the extra weight or height of the base plate on the Zephyr. In fact I recently shot a scene using my Red Scarlet, an ipad teleprompter, bartech follow focus and client monitor which was really pushing the boundaries of the Zephyr's weight capabailities. I have had no 'jutter' issues since returning the original Zephyr to B & H and getting my replacement Zephyr. The shots are smooth and silky as they should be. Please see recent steadicam video shots for one of my clients: http://movingimageinc.com/BC%20Transform.php

 

Becasue of my own experience with this 'jutter' issue there is only one thing I am certain of... it is one of the hardest problems to resolve because of the numerous combinations or events that come into play. My advice would be to exhaust every configuration until the justter stops but do it in a 'reverse engineering' work flow. Start with everything you were using and work backwards- removing one piece at a time until you get to the bare bones. Even flying the camera with no Steadicam electronics- only camera's onboard power. Hopefully you will 'hit' the magic setup and the 'jutter' will disappear. Then you will have your answer. This is by no means a quick resolution. It took me more than a month of testing and scouring forums and trying different cameras etc. but ultimately I found the problem. Best of luck!

[Victor Lazaro]

Here is my vibration issue. Now That I see it, it's different than the OP's problem.

 

https://vimeo.com/54322378

 

http://vimeo.com/54322378

Edited November 26, 2012 by Victor Lazaro

[Jim Coulter]

Hey Victor- This looks very much like the 'jutter' I was experiencing. Have you loked at the individual frames. Mine were blurred every other frame throughout the jutter. As I posted earlier- this was NOT a camera issue rather an issue with the Zephyr itself. I had this result regardless of frame rate. I tried 23.98, 29.97 amd 59.94- same results.

Edited November 26, 2012 by Jim Coulter

[Victor Lazaro]

This was shot at 58fps (so the first part of the video is the sped up to real time, then the slow mo version).

On the photo, held by my 1AC is the rig we were using. Talking about stripped down rig...

[edit] smaller pic

Edited November 27, 2012 by Victor Lazaro

[Wan Zhong Wei]

Hi Victor, yes the problem that I have is exactly the same. It is relieving to know that someone else is having the same problem as me, for a moment I thought it was my operating.

 

Man, the jitter is not pretty. Renders the shot useless.

 

I feel that this is a zephyr problem, but not the EPIC. but it could be because the base of the EPIC is too small, hence the contact point is not strong enough to hold the kind of weight.

[Victor Lazaro]

I am not sure about that, I feel like its more like the pole flexing or the dovetail attachment (always felt that this silver knob was kinda small to hold the weight of the whole camera).

Also, for this shoot I was running fairly fast and stop abruptly, so it might be related to my foot steps (could it be the arm?)

[Mark Schlicher]

Make sure you go through the troubleshooting suggested higher in the thread.

 

The dovetail retainer screw shouldn't be a problem (barring a machining error), as it pushes the dovetail firmly against the opposite side of the topstage.

 

Any connection point between the dovetail and camera is a suspect. Camera to dovetail. Camera to quick release plate to dovetail, etc.

 

The five screws that hold the topstage to the centerpost.

 

Batteries can be a little loose in their mount, and because they are heavy, can introduce vibration. Accessories that can wobble (monitors on noga arms).

 

Possibly even the gimbal but I don't imagine it's likely. Some early Zephyrs did have issues where the gimbal centering screws would work loose, causing centering issues. Could they also cause vibration? I don't know. Try a 180 degree test to make sure your gimbal is centered (do a forum search). Do this check regularly and if it goes out of alignment, you should have TIffen align it. They will also apply threadlocker.

 

Good luck!

[Alex Kornreich]

I had this issue a while ago with my pro sled. After weeks of troubleshooting, it turned out to be the diving board attached to the top stage that held the preston mdr. Where do you mount your motor driver for your wireless focus? I fixed it by upgrading the diving board with a new beefier one.

 

Also be aware of swing away matteboxs vs clip ons (clipons are better). Also be aware of how far the camera and aks are away from the gimbal. The longer the distance, the more flex there can be.

[Victor Lazaro]

I used 2M dualock under the stage (there are no diving boards available for the Zephyr) I will try adding a bungy to fasten the Bartech receiver tighter.