Electronic level/horizon indicator

[Evrim KAYA]

 

i think the specs should be,

 

1/ only roll axis

4/ sd / hd-sdi overlay with no delay

8/ one touch calibration as opposed to holding down a button in order to minimize the risk of moving the sled during calibration.

 

Few things.

 

1) why? Tilt is free

 

4) no can do with a outboard hd-sdi level it's a minimum of three frames delay in order to put a overlay on the screen

 

8) bad idea the reason you do the two second hold is so that you can't randomly set a new level

 

1/ because it's not free. you have to use a second set of gyro&sensor pair which, i think, will increase the price more than it increases the practical usage. if not i'm all for more data. let's also put a altimeter so we could know about our boom height!

 

4/ this was my desire as a potential custommer, i'm not qualified to say it is possible or not.

 

8/ it all depends on where you put the button and the shape of it. on Ultra2 the placement is very handy but at the same time you never push it by accident. And even with a one touch calibration, i'm stressed thinking about changed level when i calibrate it. a 4 sec. calibration will upset the balance.

[Sarah Thompson]

 

i think the specs should be,

 

1/ only roll axis

4/ sd / hd-sdi overlay with no delay

8/ one touch calibration as opposed to holding down a button in order to minimize the risk of moving the sled during calibration.

 

Few things.

 

1) why? Tilt is free

 

4) no can do with a outboard hd-sdi level it's a minimum of three frames delay in order to put a overlay on the screen

 

8) bad idea the reason you do the two second hold is so that you can't randomly set a new level

 

1/ because it's not free. you have to use a second set of gyro&sensor pair which, i think, will increase the price more than it increases the practical usage. if not i'm all for more data. let's also put a altimeter so we could know about our boom height!

 

4/ this was my desire as a potential custommer, i'm not qualified to say it is possible or not.

 

8/ it all depends on where you put the button and the shape of it. on Ultra2 the placement is very handy but at the same time you never push it by accident. And even with a one touch calibration, i'm stressed thinking about changed level when i calibrate it. a 4 sec. calibration will upset the balance.

 

How about this:

 

Hit the button for less than 4 seconds, and you calibrate to the average over the time you have the button pressed. Hit it for longer than 4 seconds and you go into a calibrate routine where it waits for the sled to completely settle, then takes a very accurate reading. Sounds like best of both worlds - super accurate neutral balance, whilst retaining the ability to quickly lock to a nonstandard angle.

[Sarah Thompson]

One other thing as regards 1 or 2 axis, it makes no difference because the IMU basically needs full 3 axis data in order to work properly, so the tilt axis data will be there anyway whether you display it or not.

[Evrim KAYA]

if it makes no difference i'm all for more data. but one should have the option to turn tilt reading off because it might be distracting.

 

what you proposed for the calibration process is heaven.

 

i'll pay 500$ in a heart beat for such a product.

1000$; not that fast. this is the line that defines the "competitive pricing"

2000$; after hell freezes over.

 

and why nobody commented on heated cup holder? i was serious :)

 

ps: the reading position on image should be movable. i'like to see it at the bottom just outside the 1.85 line but i know some operators prefes at the center or at the top.

[Evrim KAYA]

Hello everyone!

 

Tiffen announced their new Artificial horizon modules. I’m not %100 sure but I think this is the only gyro stabilized artificial horizon in the market yet for the steadicam use; other alternatives being merely dampened accelerometers. Did anyone saw/tested the units in the NAB show? The data sheet says that the high-grade module’s dynamic angular accuracy is +/- 0.3 degrees! The unit comes with a separate external led display as well as SD video overlay via Steadicam monitor cable pass thru – I preferred it to be a BNC –

 

and why cant we overlay on HD-SDI again?

 

Any updates on price, functionality, reliability, power needs, dimensions and connectors from Tiffen representatives or operators would be appreciated.

 

http://www.tiffen.com/userimages2/Steadicam/Wagner-Horizon_SS.pdf

 

edit: added the name of the modules in order to be found in search: WHM-BG, WHM-HG, Wagner horizon

Edited April 14, 2013 by Evrim KAYA

[RonBaldwin]

seems pretty cool -- but right to call bs on the sd only...and for god's sake guys, use lemo's for power!

[William Demeritt]

If I had to guess, it's because throwing an overlay onto HD-SDI would cause a delay in picture.

 

SD is analog, so imagine it's like a river passing by, and you pour red dye into the river and immediately see a stream of red flowing doing river.

 

HD-SDI is a digital bit stream, so this bubble level would have to take the SDI image, decode it into an image, slap on the overlay, RE-digitize it to SDI and send it down stream to a monitor. Monitor then decodes the image and displays it ASAP. As I understand it, all LCD monitors and TV's have a delay of a single frame, which represents the decode and display time. Adding a bubble level box would represent potentially 4+ frames delay, to the point where it starts becoming noticeable and obnoxious.

 

I believe this is why Cinetronic has built their Gen 2 monitor the way they did. The monitor takes in the bubble level information from the level sensor, and places it on the image at the moment it's displayed on their monitor. Since it's during the decode and display phase, it doesn't introduce any delay. That's just my rationalization, anyway.

 

I do like the "Knight Rider" style level indicator that you can place on ANY monitor! I remember hearing Cinetronic would do this with their level sensor, and it's cool to see Tiffen doing the same! Since they're not delivering them anytime soon ("Availability and Pricing Coming Soon!"), send Tiffen a message asking for a better power receptacle on the WHM-BG unit? I'm sure they're looking for your feedback. Maybe ask for a 2-pin LEMO receptacle plus the DC power plug, and ship it with either PTAP to 2-pin LEMO or something.

[RonBaldwin]

...send Tiffen a message asking for a better power receptacle on the WHM-BG unit? I'm sure they're looking for your feedback. Maybe ask for a 2-pin LEMO receptacle plus the DC power plug, and ship it with either PTAP to 2-pin LEMO or something.

 

they should know better...make it compatible with (at least) their sleds via a real world professional connector like are on all sleds nowadays. They should have just glued one over the stock crappy power plug for the picture.

[William Demeritt]

Ron: their WHM-HG seems to have the 1B.308 plugs for video and power input/output (those green blobs in the graphic on the PDF). Looking online, the Ultra 2 (and I'll use that as a baseline) has the 1B.308 connector that most other sleds do for power/video with SD monitors.

 

I'll bet that the HG model will accept power from the 1B.308 input, even if no video is present, and run the Knight Rider LED strip. Should work for HD monitors where the BG/HG is just drawing power on the 1B.308 to drive the strip and video is over HD-SDI to your display.

 

I think that's their "pro" version, and the BG is "just because" for whatever other setup is out there. I'm sure a Tiffen person will be along to comment, but just looking at the specs, that's what I'd guess.

[RonBaldwin]

love the idea of this bubble sensor...just hope it's the real deal. I guess I was thrown off by the crappy connector well featured on the front panel which is the same as my rechargeable razor -- making it look like it was an off the shelf item that they have slightly modified

[Evrim KAYA]

http://www.steadicam-news.com/nab-2013-steadicam-corner-dcs-studio-daily/

 

Mr. Brown at NAB talking about the artificial horizon unit. relevant part starts at 4:18. Before that he talks about the new small rigs and V versions of mid-sizes.

[Jens Piotrowski SOC]

very promising looking, or how about Greg Bubb makes an external display for his composite PDL, that would ne nice too....

[Victor Lazaro]

After watching the video I realized that it was much smaller that what I envisioned. This will definitely beat the crappy Marshall Digital Bubble level I have. If the price is right...

[Robert Starling SOC]

I have seen the finished housing, controls and components of an HD level that attaches at the centerpost. It's from a very reputable company but I don't think I'm at liberty to say anything more than that. It won't be cheap but it will be of the quality and feature set we all expect. Even Ron will like it I think!

 

Robert

[Rob Vuona SOC]

Its a really cool and small unit and even on their publication it says Optional cable and powering options, so connectors are not an issue. I'm looking forward to trying it out