TURN THIS RATE DOWN!!!!

[Eric Fletcher S.O.C.]

Show me this in some form of written documentation and I'm in on the billing! We work for that rate and earn that money, not someone at a desk!

 

 

It states that we are to pay 1% of SCALE it says nothing about over scale.

[Janice Arthur]

Hi all

 

I thought it was 1% of your gross income (including non-union work)??

 

That was what I heard a very long time ago; lord knows I don't do a lot of union stuff so maybe my mistake

 

(I thought u were supposed to voluntarily put the extra money in w your dues every quarter.)

Which, hand on the bible, I swear I did, (emoticon)).

 

 

Ja

[Lawrence Karman]

Show me this in some form of written documentation and I'm in on the billing! We work for that rate and earn that money, not someone at a desk!

 

 

It states that we are to pay 1% of SCALE it says nothing about over scale.

 

 

I copied this off the Camera Guild web site, From Article 14, Section 4 of the Constitution and Bylaws:

 

Section 4. Work Assessments

With the exception of those persons in the “miscellaneous classifications,” each person shall pay the Guild quarterly work assessments equal to one percent (1 %) of the person’s gross earnings for the quarter. Work assessments shall be capped at $4,500.00 per year.

 

Not sure where you are getting that other interpretation from regarding scale only, but please show us. And believe me, I'm not happy about giving my hard earned money away, but if them's the rules, then them's the rules.

[Michael Stumpf]

Well guys, the time has come.

As you all know I attempted to notify everyone of the low ball offer that the show American Horror Story (produced and backed by Fox) was offering in an attempt to protect our rates as hard working Steadicam Operators who deserve more than $4.64 over operating scale (which is less than $65 on a 12 hour day) for the work we do as

Steadicam Operators.

 

One of the operators I personally contacted BEFORE I officially turned the show down responded to my message with:

"I would not be happy with that rate either. I've been routinely getting 75 for tv and occasionally 72 with a good equipment rental. I hope you're able to get them up. Good luck."

 

The reason I sent this operator a message personally was simple, I was not able to commit to the entire season of this show due to the birth of my second child coming in a couple months (and the DP and Producers were fine with that) and was told by a close friend and crew member

who'd recently worked with this operator that he was interested in taking over the show from me when I left.

So when I knew I was going to turn it down, I contacted him asking him to NOT accept the crappy rate they were offering and that 3 Studio Execs refused to pay any higher (I know the Line Producer and even he was fighting for me with the studio to get the rate up, having meetings with the studio, again they refused.

My attempts to get the rate up would of benefited him in the long run as I was GOING to meet with him and very possibly recommend him to take over the show from me since he showed interest and was an established operator.

 

When I told this operator that I had officially turned the show down, I was informed he pretty much actively seeked the job, wanting it because he "loved the show and wanted to work on it."

 

Well, sadly he is a veteran Steadicam Operator and he took the low ball offer, even after his talk of how bad that rate is and that he would not be happy with it.

I sent him a text afterward that said, "I'm sorry and disappointed to learn that you accepted that low ball rate"

His response? He got pissy with me, telling me to stop trying to dictate his career. I told him I'm doing no such thing that I'm trying to protect ALL us Steadicam Operators as

a TEAM, I'm not in this JUST for myself, if I was I'd of just taken the show, but I'm turning this crap rate down for the betterment of us ALL as a community, and had hoped he would be too.

He said he doesn't appreciate me talking to him like he just bought a rig "last month". Again, i said I'm doing no such thing, but I'd hope and thought the only person who would take

this rate would be somebody who did just get a rig last month (or last year for that matter).

 

Now I know he's probably going to claim he got the rate up, but he didn't.

The Line Producer, who I've worked with on 2-3 other shows, wanted to pay ME more, tried his best, even after I turned the job down the first time he asked me not too, and said, "give me 48 hours, I'm going to have a meeting with 2 of the studio execs again and I'm going to wave the white flag and try to convince them you are worth more and are the operator the DP wants and has work with for over a decade." He then said, he can't promise anything though as they are very hard lined on these rates.

Sure enough, 40 hours later he contacts me stating they will not budge and go higher on the rate.

 

Again, the show is American Horror Story, and sorry guys, again, I tried to do the best for us all. It's very disheartening that a veteran operator accepted these rates. He just hurt us all by accepting the low ball rate on this show.

 

If guys like him continue to drive our rates down, it's only a matter of 2=3 years before they will only pay $2-3 over scale for us, and it will be normal. At that point, I'd just sell the rig, buy additional gear and sit on the dolly and operate and make up my steadicam rental with additional gear rental.

By the way, another operator friend of mine is doing A Camera on a second season cable network show and he's getting $60 an hour as the A Camera Operator, not doing Steadicam.

So the operator on American Horror Story is doing Steadicam on a Steadicam heavy show, for only $3 an hour more, good job man, thanks for

F-ing us all.

 

I'm sure he's going to be pissed off even more with me for letting everyone know he did this, but I don't care. I'm tired of everyone "protecting" low ballers and not calling them out on it. I'm more interested in protecting all of us who work hard for what we do and deserve to be paid accordingly, not protecting the few who are just hurting us.

[Michael Stumpf]

On the off topic discussion about having the union establish a "steadicam" rate, and to those who, like I used too, think that we'd never

get any rate above that then, I say, well, what we are doing now with a few veteran operators accepting only a few bucks over scale, and our

rates continually declining, is surely NOT working.

Further, they have an established DP rate "minimum" as well, and many established DP still negotiate for well over that.

A union minimum Steadicam rate would AT LEAST protect us from low ballers and also guarantees at least a reasonable

increase (of say at least 20-25% over operator daily scale for weekly employees) on every show.

Seasoned operators, like DP's, can still negotiate above their union minimum scales.

 

Again, it's something to consider and think about, since our reluctance to embrace a union minimum Steadicam rate has only resulted in the continued decline of our rates over the past 6-8 years when compared to the continued pay increases the union has required EVERY OTHER union member on the film set receive.

It will surely eliminate any low ballers. And even if a veteran operator accepted the union minimum on a TV show, they'd be getting a reasonable pay

increase over the regular operator rate, and further, when season 2 or 3 comes along and they are well established on the show, loved by the actors, producers, and

directors, have a solid platform then to negotiate above that union minimum if they desire to keep their well liked Steadicam Operator.

 

That's my .02 and quite frankly I'm more and more hoping the union will adopt this. If they did, American Horror Story would be paying

$70-73 an hour to me right now, and though still not the $75 I got on my last TV show in fall 2010, it's an "acceptable" rate

and well above the $63 they refused to pay above and what a veteran operator accepted.

[Michael Stumpf]

Yup, it's the veteran op in my post above who took the low ball rate on American Horror Story.

[Nicholas Davidoff]

I've been following this thread and I'm compelled to throw in my two cents. I have to agree with Michael about the solution for the rate decline. As an operator working in the TV side of the industry for a little while now, I've been witness to different sides of these negotiations. I too have fought valiantly for a better rate and am finding it more and more futile. I too think the time has come for a union minimum steadicam rate, at least in the TV industry for starters, similar to a tech rate bump for a first AC. And just like a DP, this leaves every operator free to negotiate a higher rate based on their clout, experience and demand. You can still command your rate and if people want you, they'll pay for you. For years people have been negotiating their own rates, way above scale and a new union minimum rate will not affect this process. What happened to Michael is a perfect example that we are fighting a losing battle and the tactics need to be changed. New rate standards are being put in place by the studios, like it or not. If this regression continues, soon the studios will only be obliged to pay us OPERATOR SCALE and if you don't like it, f--k off, there's a hundred other guys lined up for the gig. "Sticking together" obviously doesn't work and never has and that's plain as day. Our current minimum is already established and that's operator scale. A union TV minimum around 15-20% above operator scale is, in my humble opinion, fair and entirely appropriate for the work we do. This would firmly establish the fact that we as steadicam operators provide a specialized skillset, and our workload is high above the demands of a regular camera operator. I don't understand how this minimum would possibly prevent any high level operators from negotiating their personal rates as they have been for years. If we don't start at least a closed discussion on this matter soon, in a couple years we might all be working for operator scale.

[Robert Starling SOC]

If we have our union place a "safety net" rate below us, it will just put a garbage can lid on top of us with all the stink that goes with it.

 

We would be stronger and better off as a group if we could somehow get operators to band together as they have in the past. Divide and conquer is the producer's approach and frankly it's their job to minimize expenses and minimize expenses.

 

Robert

[Eric Fletcher S.O.C.]

A union TV minimum around 15-20% above operator scale is, in my humble opinion, fair and entirely appropriate for the work we do.

 

 

How many times does it need to be said.

 

1) the union doesn't give a crap about our position

2) the union has no clue what a steadicam operator does (as proven by BA's asking why first AC's need tech rate on steadicam by asking the question "Why do you need to use a remote follow focus?")

3) have you seen the unions idea of a "Good" contract?

4) the operator is NOT a mandatory staffing position

 

Keep far away from the union when it comes to OUR money. Out the chuckleheads that are destroying our rates. Refuse to help them. Refuse to pass them work. Refuse their emails and phone calls and again OUT the bitches and bastards, those that want to whore themselves out cheaper than a cragislist hooker deserve for the community to F**K them

[Alec Jarnagin SOC]

"For years people have been negotiating their own rates, way above scale and a new union minimum rate will not affect this process. What happened to Michael is a perfect example "

 

Oh?! Perfect example? Yeah, no problem, they wanted Michael so they paid whatever he asked.....

 

The Union Does NOT require an operator. Don't get me wrong, I am very pro union but they have bigger fish to fry. If someone low-balls, cut their knee caps, bash their skull and gnaw on it, but to expect the Union to get involved is misguided. For what it is worth, all of the rates in this post are horrific by East Coast Standards (but the cost of living is much higher in NYC despite what LAers think). Even the best "A" Camera Ops here can't get more than scale. Don't go down that road; it's ugly. I don't want to sell my two PROs for nothing. Thank you.

[Nicholas Davidoff]

If we have our union place a "safety net" rate below us, it will just put a garbage can lid on top of us with all the stink that goes with it.

 

We would be stronger and better off as a group if we could somehow get operators to band together as they have in the past. Divide and conquer is the producer's approach and frankly it's their job to minimize expenses and minimize expenses.

 

Robert

 

The whole "band together" thing has been discussed over and over for the past few years and has NEVER come to fruition. Maybe this somehow worked back in the glory days, but it's a dead concept today. Too many operators, too many rigs, too little work. Forget about it.

 

With all due respect, you guys are all veterans who have been doing this a long time. Maybe you're right, maybe you're not. No way to know for sure. All I know is that things are very different now. The industry and the world are changing. What used to work needs to be rethought. There is already a union minimum rate in place for our position, wether you recognize it or not.

[William Demeritt]

Out the chuckleheads that are destroying our rates. Refuse to help them. Refuse to pass them work. Refuse their emails and phone calls and again OUT the bitches and bastards, those that want to whore themselves out cheaper than a cragislist hooker deserve for the community to F**K them

 

OK, how do we out them? Where can we out them? I've got my sh*tlist, but I have nowhere to publicly "out" many of them. Many of them are taking union jobs for low pay, doing it for hours, undercutting other operators knowingly and showing no remorse when presented with the damage done.

 

Seems like the problem exists at the top as well as at the bottom. Ostracism may cut off the referral work, but those people are still getting work through the channels of lower pay. They'll still find a way to help producers "minimize costs" because they'd rather be working.

[Philip J. Martinez SOC]

[quote name='Robert Starling SOC' timestamp='1342584072' post='78476'

We would be stronger and better off as a group if we could somehow get operators to band together as they have in the past. Divide and conquer is the producer's approach and frankly it's their job to minimize expenses and minimize expenses.

 

Robert

 

 

Isn't that what a union does/is?

 

I lost a union job in June because I would not work at the Operator scale rate. It would have been nice if the union contract stated they have to pay 15% or 20% more. I am a newer Steadicam op got a rig in 2006 and I did not join the union till 2008. I don't make my hours. I wish I did, it would save me over $14,000.00 a year in family medical. TV show very appealing because of hours. If I did that scale job in June I might have made my hours. I held "my" line on rate but as medical goes up every year it's getting harder to do.

[Jess Haas SOC]

We would be stronger and better off as a group if we could somehow get operators to band together as they have in the past.

The problem is that there are more and more "operators" every day now and fewer and fewer real paying jobs. Over time things might normalize a bit but I don't think things are ever really going to go back to the way they were in "the past." Not sure what the solution is but having the union establish a minimum will keep the undercutting from getting too bad and give less incentive to hire the guy with no experience who is willing to work for as little as possible. Even if that happened it would still be up to us as a group to band together to keep rates at a reasonable level.

[David Allen Grove]

The Union's answer to the "Steadicam Rate"

A few years ago, prior to the loss of the Mandatory operator position being eliminated, the Steadicam Guild made a simple inquiry to the union regarding a "Steadicam rate."

 

The union's response: "That would be difficult because in order to create a Steadicam rate, the Union would have to give up something."

 

That means they are not going to negotiate a Steadicam Rate.