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Using the new Fawcett Exo Vest from Tiffen


Peter Abraham

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I haven't gotten to try the lastest model. I wore it last year at NAB and did enjoy it and would like to try it again.

 

I'm not quite sure why the price is so shocking considering it's a brand new vest. And, WK vests range from $5000-$7300 and Pro is at $5200 so it's not THE most expensive vest out there. I'll concede it's on the upper end of the price ranges I've seen but if it's a great vest, then people will pay it (as many have already done with the other vests already mentioned). To be clear, I'm not knocking the other vests. I've only ever flown in a Tiffen vest or Pro vest. Haven't had the pleasure of a WK yet. Just working with what I've experienced.

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Seems pretty pricey but then again what isn't in our world. At $1,000 more than my PRO vest which is a dream compared to my old Ultra2 vest, the Exo would have to be revolutionary on every level. Clearly it's a revolutionary design concept.

 

At NAB last year I really didn't have time for Chris to give me a proper fit and only tested it for about five minutes which is not enough for a fair assessment. Hopefully I'll be able to slip away from the Angenieux booth during lunch, get a proper fit and test it out with a real-world camera payload.

 

Robert

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WOW> At this price, Tiffen is missing the opportunity to sell the new vest to thousands of customers who already own their lower priced rigs, which sometimes cost as little or much as 6500.

 

Volume over Margin would be better here, giving the fact that they have a loyal customer base. Nobody can justify paying 6500 for a vest if the whole rig/arm/vest cost $15000

 

I would not be suprised if there will be a "lite" version in the 3K range in the near future....

 

good luck.

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I also expected a more competitive/comparable pricing. But given that this is a completely new design, I could understand the price tag. Also, according to Robin Thwaites; this product is made with 350 individual parts and much more complex than the other vest designs.


6500$ is a little expensive but I believe this concept surely deserves a chance.


How much was the first WK harness when it first came out? The top of the line WK still costs as high as 7500$. This vest promises better comfort, much lighter weight and less influence from steps. I say
if it delivers what is promised the price is not excessive.

 

Let’s try it! And hear from the first owners. And then make our decision.

 

Also I’m happy that this is made with the big rigs in mind. If Tiffen would have made it with the whole steadicam line in mind it would have some serious shortcomings in the heavy loads.



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"But given that this is a completely new design"

 

It is not in my opinion, its a new use. I've seen post surgery spinal back braces with pivoting shoulder pads for years.

 

It is however a new use of that idea and granted a new concept for this specific application. The idea however is not new, sorry.

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Really great point Jens.

In my mind Tiffen hasn't done justice to the product. NOTHING here from anyone about availability. No one trumpeting how proud they are to bring a new innovative product to the market. Not much of an unvailing.

Don't get me wrong, all my congratulations go to Chris for making this really new cool piece of equipment. He, Garrett and Jerry are true creators of good and great, innovative products for the Steadicam world. I admire them greatly for their ability to turn an idea into a reality. I know I couldn't do it.

What I don't really get though is Tiffen's attitude toward the customer. Not much out reach and virtually no incentive.

Incentive: Remember the TB6? Remember THAT incentive? How about PRO lowering their prices by 10% several years ago?

Cinetronics offered discounts to Gen 2 monitor pre-orders and put the Gen 1's on sale.

What has Tiffen done? Not a thing so far as I can tell. Not even a personal announcement about release and price on this forum. Wait isn't this the Steadicam Forum? Aren't we their direct customers?

And the tradegy of that is that a good guy like Peter Abraham, who is not under their employ, touts the virtues of the vest for them, and he gets vilified because he is the only voice out there giving any information whatsoever! Not fair to Peter, and in my mind due to the neglectful attitudes of Tiffen. I'm sorry Peter.

I just have to scratch my head and wonder, why?

What I can tell y'all is that the vest purchase that I am considering has just eliminated one contender. If they don't care enough to talk to us here, and the vest is $1000.00 more than the PRO vest, innovation loses, the company with customer interest in mind takes the lead, and $1000.00 difference might just be the icing on the cake.

It's too bad. Chris Fawcett has made a really cool product.

Again Congratulations Chris, good luck with it.

Just my 2cents.

Jamie

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I also expected a more competitive/comparable pricing. But given that this is a completely new design, I could understand the price tag. Also, according to Robin Thwaites; this product is made with 350 individual parts and much more complex than the other vest designs.

 

6500$ is a little expensive but I believe this concept surely deserves a chance.

 

How much was the first WK harness when it first came out? The top of the line WK still costs as high as 7500$. This vest promises better comfort, much lighter weight and less influence from steps. I say

if it delivers what is promised the price is not excessive.

 

350 individual parts eh? Consider this each proper double shear fastener comprises 4 parts (Nut, Bolt, face washer and back washer) 50 fasteners is 200 parts count. That number is a meaningless sales number thrown out to deflect any real and serious questions. In quantity Materials and machining costs (Especially if outsourced off shore) and you're looking at MAYBE $700 in low quantities and even lower prices in large quantities. The Kalssen Vest that you are comparing this to is completely hand made and contains hand laid carbon fiber that is FAR from inexpensive (There is probally 15 yards in the drop down arm alone and the carbon fabric is $80+/yard BEFORE resin)

 

 

"But given that this is a completely new design"

 

It is not in my opinion, its a new use. I've seen post surgery spinal back braces with pivoting shoulder pads for years.

 

It is however a new use of that idea and granted a new concept for this specific application. The idea however is not new, sorry.

 

Totally agree with you first time I saw it I thought the same thing and what really is egregious is that those braces are $450.....

 

 

Really great point Jens.

In my mind Tiffen hasn't done justice to the product. NOTHING here from anyone about availability. No one trumpeting how proud they are to bring a new innovative product to the market. Not much of an unvailing.

Don't get me wrong, all my congratulations go to Chris for making this really new cool piece of equipment. He, Garrett and Jerry are true creators of good and great, innovative products for the Steadicam world. I admire them greatly for their ability to turn an idea into a reality. I know I couldn't do it.

What I don't really get though is Tiffen's attitude toward the customer. Not much out reach and virtually no incentive.

Incentive: Remember the TB6? Remember THAT incentive? How about PRO lowering their prices by 10% several years ago?

Cinetronics offered discounts to Gen 2 monitor pre-orders and put the Gen 1's on sale.

What has Tiffen done? Not a thing so far as I can tell. Not even a personal announcement about release and price on this forum. Wait isn't this the Steadicam Forum? Aren't we their direct customers?

And the tradegy of that is that a good guy like Peter Abraham, who is not under their employ, touts the virtues of the vest for them, and he gets vilified because he is the only voice out there giving any information whatsoever! Not fair to Peter, and in my mind due to the neglectful attitudes of Tiffen. I'm sorry Peter.

I just have to scratch my head and wonder, why?

What I can tell y'all is that the vest purchase that I am considering has just eliminated one contender. If they don't care enough to talk to us here, and the vest is $1000.00 more than the PRO vest, innovation loses, the company with customer interest in mind takes the lead, and $1000.00 difference might just be the icing on the cake.

It's too bad. Chris Fawcett has made a really cool product.

Again Congratulations Chris, good luck with it.

Just my 2cents.

Jamie

 

Well said Jamie. Tiffen doesn't care about the operator, they care about the sale and if they can hook you for the next sale. Is there really a reason to have EIGHTEEN Different models? At best you could focus on three sizes of rigs but they don't they focus on a confusing array of rigs, it's a up-sell tactic. Then there is their pricing model, the G70 arm has $1900 dollars worth of parts in it...... That's it, NINETEEN HUNDRED, they sell it for nineteen THOUSAND.... Equipos ( http://equipoisinc.com/documents/EquipoisBrochure-2011.pdf ) which sells the EXACT SAME ARM for industrial use sells it for SIX THOUSAND........ and that includes a tool fixture which is a gimbal! Is this a company that takes an interest in it's customers or in it's bottom line?

 

 

Lets hope it wont need an upgrade.........................

 

LOL, ain't that the truth.... "less influence from steps" Pro suit doesn't need that, WK Suit doesn't need that... Maybe Tiffen is masking a product wide issue?

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"Then there is their pricing model, the G70 arm has $1900 dollars worth of parts in it...... That's it, NINETEEN HUNDRED, they sell it for nineteen THOUSAND.... Equipos ( http://equipoisinc.com/documents/EquipoisBrochure-2011.pdf ) which sells the EXACT SAME ARM for industrial use sells it for SIX THOUSAND........ and that includes a tool fixture which is a gimbal!"

 

I'm curious now, I know the price for the G70 is readily available, but where are you getting the figures for how much the parts are. And is that $1900 in parts alone or $1900 in parts, labor, and machining?

 

And if the Equipos is the exact same arm, has anyone tried using it on a rig? It seems like you could spend about another grand on a socket block and arm post and have a $19,000 arm for $7000

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And if the Equipos is the exact same arm, has anyone tried using it on a rig? It seems like you could spend about another grand on a socket block and arm post and have a $19,000 arm for $7000

 

I would love to see this idea tested!

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Unfortunately I have to approve most of what Jamie said about the company. Also first time I heard about the exo’s pricing I said exactly the same thing as Eric about WK harness being manufactured hand-made and with very expensive raw materials.


Even though I didn’t even see the vest yet by my own eyes the concept makes a lot of sense to me. That’s why I will “try and then decide”.


Yes, there is a lot of controversy about the company but I’m still willing to give a chance to a potentially revolutionary approach to solve the problem of carrying the huge weight gracefully and comfortably-no matter which arm it is attached to-. The general idea of the pivoting rods might have been born from medical tech but this doesn’t mean that it didn’t need an extensive design of its own to make it proper to our purposes. And how about being able to breathe freely while operating?

Do I feel comfortable to invest to a product from Tiffen %100? Unfortunately not. And this is nothing to do with the inventors or the concepts they come up with. I even can say that I give Tiffen products a chance because I believe in their concepts in spite of the company itself.

But what do I know? I am a newbie with only 4 and a half years under my belt. Where are the senior Tiffen customers? Why nobody speaks up?


The issue is not about the vest or the arm or the sled. When people felt bad about how MK-V had treated them they spoke up. More recently, same goes about the design of the Teradek bolt; Bolt customers declared their positive and negative feedbacks about the product in a respectful and constructive manner. And they found someone with actual answers to speak to them.

If a 2k worth of equipment worth this much energy –and it does- certainly Tiffen and its customers could do better.


Because these issues Tiffen branded concepts like tilt-head, motorized stage, exo vest, ability to change the arm’s behavior on the fly is getting a lot of undeserved publicity like they are all bad –which certainly isn’t at all-.

 

This is unfortunate. Look what has become of the exo vest even prior to it getting started delivered. Potentially fine equipment designed by a known and respected operator gets slashed just because it is branded by Tiffen even before people tried it.


Since I bought my Tiffen rig I had nothing but good experience from wonderful people who works there. But the company is starting to get a reputation of an “evil corp.”

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