Alex Kolb Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 Here's my take on it. Yes, we could be easily "tell [the aggressor] to piss off or maybe just ignore him!", but this is supposed to be a professional forum. It's all well and good when people troll through yahoo answers or 4chan, but this forum is designed to be used by professional motion picture and television steadicam operators. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Smith Posted December 16, 2012 Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 Seriously, I mean this with all my love: grow some sac people. If you disagree with Eric or whoever, tell him to piss off or maybe just ignore him! I don't care if it's a 30 year veteran or a newbie; if you disagree with them, say so or just ignore it. re. That would all be fine, except what is being pointed out here, by a lot of people, including some giants of our industry and craft, is the abuse of his position as moderator............. Eric can do and say as he pleases as a member, but not as a moderator. Just because it's not "against the rules" to be rude and aggressive doesn't mean it's a good thing to accept that type of behaviour. What's wrong with aspiring to a civil community! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Daniel Stilling DFF Posted December 16, 2012 Premium Members Report Share Posted December 16, 2012 I myself am sick and tired of rudeness in any aspect of life. Internet or on set. In traffic or with friends. Telling someone to shut up is just being rude as well, and I try my best to not be that guy. Besides you know that telling someone to piss off will never work, will only bring them back with a vengeance, perpetuating the cycle. You can be honest in many ways. Polite is also available :) 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Rob Vuona SOC Posted December 17, 2012 Premium Members Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 To my Steadi Brothers and Sisters, I used to come to this forum all the time after I realized my dream was to be a Steadicam Operator. Fly safe all. And best of luck in the future cause it's really hard out there. Don't give up! Listen here you lowballing, undercutting, heal digging, clawing your way to the top Steadi chick !! LOL . . . hahahahahahah Just playing with your Local Detroit smart ass attitude and you know I love ya !! First of all, attitude on the forum maybe has changed, but I can remember coming on in the early days and bugging the shit out of some veteran ops regarding stupid questions like, "Why the hell are these 7" monitors so F....n expensive"? ok so maybe thats still a valid question, but regardless I bugged the crap out of them and they finally said, go research and learn . . . . .so I did, no harm, no foul. Personally I field questions almost weekly about steadicam regarding live TV set-ups and I honestly don't mind helping out. I use the forum to make contacts around the planet in hopes that if anything every goes wrong I have a resource to go to for help. I shoot the Amazing Race, 12 countries, 5 continents all in three weeks twice a year and if something goes wrong in the middle of a foreign land I would like to think that other operators around the planet would be willing to help out just Like I would. • As for young Jess and her drive for greatness . . . . =) Quite the story of struggle and drive young lady Here's my take on all of this . . . . . There's always going to be newbie's that are on their way to the top and they gotta do what they gotta do to get their chops. There has been many a time where I was asked to do a gig for less and in the early day, when I was still learning, I was thankful to be asked and able to shoot anything and get paid, BUT, those gigs certainly were not in the realm or stepping on any toes of any of my steadicam brethren. They were little shows that were either a blip on TV, corporate or favors for up coming DP's and directors. While I'm on that subject, some of those favors have carried over to great gigs and great friends. The bottom line is, there are always going to be shows with no budgets and producers that want all the toys and are willing to exploit someone to get it. The lower paying gigs are really not a concern for the veterans because we have surpassed having to work for the clients that have no budget. The sticky part for all you newbie's that are killing it out there and are our future big timers is when that offer comes for that big show you have been aspiring to get, you need to know, who was on it before, what did they charge and why are they not on it now? These inquires to the right people will earn you respect and referrals for future gigs. We all are well aware that there are shows that will never pay the rate we all want and aspire to and as much as we wish we could all hold out for that specific amount there will most likely be someone else willing to do it. The difference you all can make is arming yourself with knowledge and communicating. I always try to make the effort to find out about a show, who's on it, why I am being called. Sometimes its because a director requested me and other times it's because the producers are upset with the directors first call and they want someone else for less money. Learning this and knowing the other operator, we both quote the same rate, and therefore keeping the job for the directors first choice. Sure I don't get the job, but there's always another show and those kind of favors go a long way with co-workers, directors and DP's. If your in this business for the long haul as a career,specifically as a steadicam op, then you have to learn to not look at the now and look at the future. For all the ops out there, don't be afraid to ask questions on the forum in fear of being crucified, especially you newbs, we are here to help, I feel I can say, "we" , since I know many of the guys on here are more than willing to give up info, except Will Demeritt he's a prick ! . . . . . . .LOL . . . . hahahahahahaha just kidding Will. Lastly, non of this really matters anyway because we only have 5 more days till the end of the world. Happy Holidays all hopefully see y'all next year JM2C 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Ryan Brooks Posted December 17, 2012 Premium Members Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 I am a newbie, but I have a question regarding what Rob just said about rates. When I started out in the grip world, I came from a place of great respect for guys who had been in the industry for years. Because of that I didn't feel right asking for the same rate as them. Why should I, a person who has only been trying to be a Steadicam Operator for a few months, ask for the same rate as a veteran of 10 or more years? I just don't think it is fair, but then again I don't want to undercut anybody either. Any advice on this issue would be helpful. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members chris fawcett Posted December 17, 2012 Author Premium Members Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 We're experiencing mission creep. Shall we continue the "lowballing" discussion over here in the newbies section? http://www.steadicamforum.com/index.php?showtopic=17203 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evrim KAYA Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 (edited) I think we shouldn’t alienate anybody out of this forum. A veteran operator of 30 years with lots and lots of technical and artistic experience is not someone we will be happy of losing. Vengeance is not the way of solving a problem. I hope he will chime in and talk about his point of view. I personally feel that I have more to lose if he grant our wishes and disappear. We, the new operator breed need our veteran brothers and sisters in order to get help in our hopefully long journey. And I also feel that the veterans of our profession also need us, the padawans, to find and try crazy ideas. Being young / crazy / stupid is the way to find new approaches to our profession. After all, a crazy guy in his thirties invented our profession. That said, I also do believe the atmosphere in the forum could use a serious tune-up; we need a more welcoming attitude from veterans and more humility from newbies and we certainly in need of RESPECT all around. The internet is a brutal place with faceless and nameless brutes dominating every forum out there. But we are different or we ought to be. Every person should remind him/herself that we are talking to real persons on this forum and act accordingly. If we don’t find a solution to these problems, I feel that, this site’s function will be diminished to an online marketplace. We already have e-bay for that purpose. In the matter of ethical issues of being a moderator, I feel that the final analysis should be done by the veterans. And perhaps they should create a set of rules. But the newbies might want to abstain in these proceedings. May the Force be with you! Edited December 17, 2012 by Evrim KAYA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Rob Vuona SOC Posted December 17, 2012 Premium Members Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 We're experiencing mission creep. Shall we continue the "lowballing" discussion over here in the newbies section? http://www.steadicam...showtopic=17203 Good Call Chris, I apologize for getting off subject a bit while addressing Jessica's post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members James Davis Posted December 17, 2012 Premium Members Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 I think we shouldn’t alienate anybody out of this forum. A veteran operator of 30 years with lots and lots of technical and artistic experience is not someone we will be happy of losing. Vengeance is not the way of solving a problem. You summed up my thoughts right there Evrim, I am very thankful for all the helpful feedback and knowledge I have picked up from the many experienced operators that we are lucky enough to have with us on these boards. Everyone is guilty of being a bit sharp, blunt even a bit rude at times both in real life and on the internet...myself included. When it comes to text based only communication.. context, tone of voice and intention aren't always easily conveyed. I'm sure that just as many short, sharp and to the point posts have been miscontrued as rude and unhelpful when they were probably quite the opposite when you consider the background of the person giving that advice. The world would be boring if we all behaved the same, and I don't believe thatjust because someone doesn't quite conform to what everyone deems to be acceptable behaviour, they should then be cast out from the community like an Ipod that didn't pass the QC test. My two pence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kolb Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 If the world doesn't end on the 21st, maybe we can all get together on the 23rd and air our steadi forum greivences around a Festivus pole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members William Demeritt Posted December 17, 2012 Premium Members Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 If the world doesn't end on the 21st, maybe we can all get together on the 23rd and air our steadi forum greivences around a Festivus pole. I'm all for that!! I hear they have poles at Jumbo's. Ron, care to organize? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Aerts Posted December 18, 2012 Report Share Posted December 18, 2012 To my Steadi Brothers and Sisters, To all of you that read this long message, I thank you. I am posting this on another site in case this gets "revised." I hope my words have helped shed any light on all the hatred going on. Fly safe all. And best of luck in the future cause it's really hard out there. Don't give up! Cheers to your tribute here. Best, Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Dean Smollar Posted December 19, 2012 Premium Members Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 file://localhost/Users/bjmcdonnell/Pictures/iPhoto%20Library/Masters/2012/08/18/20120818-174309/185467_4046908763827_1942403948_n.jpg I wanna know what this photo was supposed to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members William Demeritt Posted December 19, 2012 Premium Members Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 Dean: you can't see it? It's hilarious! So epic! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Chris Flurry Posted December 19, 2012 Premium Members Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 I'm all for being nice , but seriously this is the fucking film industry. If you can't take a little bit of shit online then good luck in show business. We used to have a system in camera that involved coming up the hard way. Start as a film loader and trial by fire, if you couldn't cut then you got cast aside. If you want to jump straight to the top and become a Steadicam Operator expect to have to eat some shit. If you cant take some fire for being an "under-cutter" or asking a dumb question, how do you expect to deal with the preassures of operating. The reality is that in the camera department you have to deal with really high pressure situations on a regular basis and your "fuck ups" can ruin a days work or even an entire project. My Steadicam journey is coming to an end, (I'm selling my rig to focus on my career as an assistant) but I am great full to all the people who have helped me along the way. One of whom is Eric Fletcher, his wealth of knowledge has been an asset to me both on and offline. Some of you have called him out in this thread, I would be remiss if I didn't stand up for him right now. I also find the source of thread suspicious, I'm sure Tiffen would love to see one of their guys on as a moderator on this forum, and put and end to the guy who calls them out on all of their shit. The same guy who discovered the design flaws in the g70 years before Tiffen coped to it. -Peace out 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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