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2013 New rigs - Real World Improvements?


John E Fry

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Sorry all. Didn't mean to start a bad-by-comparison thread (or provoke Eric ; ) I was just interested to hear what you all thought about the new rigs.

 

Having modified my Tiffen rigs to be a bit more modular (or at least able to share & swap some components) I was hoping we might start to see them do the same thing, so potentially older rigs could be upgraded with new parts, & newer rig design could become more universal. I understand this may in the short term affect sales, but new components & up rated parts would encourage people to continually spend money on upgrading their Steadicams as they earn & progress in the noble art, rather than having to buy a whole new rig each time. In fact looking to other manufacturers, I would suggest that this would encourage a lot more brand loyalty & with sensible pricing of the components could actually increase overal sales figures. People would still buy new rigs but wouldn't be selling old ones as quickly to buy a PRO. Not that I have anything against PRO in the slightest, in fact I'd have one if I could afford it (for these reasons!) but this is about Tiffen right now - please!

 

If there was a sliding base rail system available from Tiffen for your Flyer, or an easy 12/24v output module for your EFP would you not just buy them? How about an RED or Alexa specific power converter/regulator that would run from any larger rig? That would cut out a lot of hassle, & weight topside. You could argue that the fabulous Exovest & Tango are a step towards this already - a useful add-on & upgrade to existing specific rigs, but which may require a bit of work on your rig to fix up.

 

 

I know these suggestions would probably require a new loom, so why not have those available too? Most of us have had to dismantle our rigs for maintenance or repair or upgrade anyway, why not make a manual to do so properly? We're all trained professionals, so why not include this in the Workshops so the warranty wouldn't be affected? Make an optional extra day on the end of the course to just train operators specifically to be allowed to user-upgrade their rigs. More money in the short term from the extra day, and long term as they keep upgrading their parts.

 

I'm fighting on Tiffen's side here really. Garrett is a marvellous man, the inventor, the Don of Steadicam, & he, Jerry, Ted, now Chris Fawcett & all the other wonderful Steadicam geniusses have led the way for us for so long, so why not shout down the short term marketeers & implement a strategy that will make the idea of Operators 'outgrowing' Tiffen rigs a thing of the past?

 

Just a thought - but it is the reason I haven't bought a new Tiffen rig.

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I own a Ultra2c w/ G-70X arm system. I first owned an Archer with G50. Then I sold this unit to upgrade. I really don't see a big issue about this. The Archer was perfect as it was way more cost effective than a GPI or an Ultra2 or similar rig. And I wasn't sure I would really go for Steadicam when I first started. So spending $50K+ on gear I might not use too long, just didn't seem like a very sound strategy to me. And lets be honest. Your first 2-4 years, you should really think twice about saying yes to a job where a Alexa or F65 is involved. Most likely those jobs will test your skills too much. And also in countries like Norway, where the market isn't big enough just to do Steadicam, buying a $50K+ rig is daunting.

 

I'm pleased with my current gear, but will indeed look into a GPI if and when I decide to change anything in my gear.

 

I too agree that the business model of Tiffen these days seems a bit weird. But hey, I'm not in a position to judge. Tiffen feel that this is a right business strategy for them, and I respect that. To me it sounds better to offer 2-3 types of rigs, if I would choose to do business this way.

 

But I must agree with Janice's post. There's a lot of responding to posts these days that really don't answer the question an operator has, it is more used to bash out against a brand. This always did seem strange to me, that people don't have anything better to do than say something negative, in stead of just answering the question to the best of his/hers knowledge.

 

I'm all for saying what's what when it comes to gear. It's important that we inform about the gear we use/have experience with. After all, the investment we make are expensive, and in these days of economic difficulties, not without risk. Just don't do it of the expense of another operator who's looking for an answer to a problem.

 

LE

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Good morning:

 

Janice: you're obviously frustrated; exactly who in your mind would be "taking back the forum"? Other than Tim Tyler, who or what group owns the editorial content or controls the opinions of members posted herein? I pay $2400 a year as a sponsoring advertiser but I don't expect, deserve or have rights to a special voice or protection do I?

 

John, you said: "Make an optional extra day on the end of the course to just train operators specifically to be allowed to user-upgrade their rigs"

 

That's a fine solution but you're essentially saying you're willing to pay extra for an option that other manufacturers not only include but encourage for free. It is your right to choose but you are not offered that option as of now.

 

John, in post #1 of this thread you brought up and regurgitated the entire concept of closed system versus modular systems including corporate marketing concerns etc.. We didn't start this thread sir, you did. Now you want to limit the conversation to Tiffen only because of the respect due to Garrett and other Tiffen staff? I don't think anyone here overlooks the respect and contribution Garrett made and that he is a wonderful human being as well. That does not mean that anything and everything that comes out of the door or mouths at Tiffen or any other manufacturer is gospel and immune from debate and other opinions.

 

Janice / Alex / Afton / Mods: I don't care for some of the bickering myself but I'd rather see lively and even passionate discussion and debate rather than a homogenized watered down version of the forum. As for "hate", that's just the new catch phrase cliche people use to label free speech opinions with when someone says what others are already thinking and others don't agree with. Are you being a "hater" by disagreeing with the content or tone?

 

Was Afton being a hater last week when he blasted our Union on health care? No, just opining his frustrations.

 

One of my posts the other day was deleted / hidden and in retrospect I was just being a wise-ass and have no problem at all with that form of moderation and I understood 100% it was off topic. What I do have a problem with is when it comes to control and denial of free speech/opinion/debate versus moderation to keep things on topic.

 

Have a wonderful day!

 

Robert

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Janice,

 

Don't like the tone of a post or what someone post, don't read it you're not forced to read it.

 

Manufactures do NOT own this forum (tho one seems to think that they do). The whole point of the forum is to provide INFORMATION good or bad about gear, operating and practices.

 

I know people who have gone thru a workshop and bought gear only to discover other brands and that those other brands worked better for them. If they had read the forum they might have been better informed when it came time to buy. A perfect example of this is your claim that the Artimis is not modular, because of this forum and it's participants correct information was posted.

 

Complaining about posts doesn't do any good and ultimately becomes part of the problem

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20 rigs, yes TWENTY different rigs and not a single one is upgradable. You buy a tiffen product and you are locked into that sled. Want to upgrade you have to sell it.

 

Why is that? it's the Tiffen business plan, build a closed system, teach your features, advertise on your website that ONLY your gear is the real thing and that everything else is a "Counterfit" product (Steadicam homepage right side of the screen, look for yourself), sit back and Profit!

 

Not only is a non modular closed system next to impossible to upgrade but it's also almost impossible to field repair. Tiffen suggests sending your G-Series arm back to the factory for service one a year. Why? My 14 year old Pro arm has been servied exactly ONCE and that was more of a "Wow this arm is old I've never had it looked at" type of thing. What happens if you are on a distant location and you crash? You are FEDEX away from being whole again with a modular system, with the Tiffen you are at the mercy of the factory and you better hope that they are not taking inventory... Better yet if you are in a city with another guy that owns a PRO sled (Gen 2+) you are in business because you can swap on his parts to make you work again.

 

Here's an interesting thought two friends could form a equipment partnership and buy 1 solid center post and 1 telescopic, one Gen 4 base and one Gen 3m one DB 2 and one DB 3 split the cost down the middle and then swap out gear as need for jobs.

 

With a modular type of system you tailor the rig to the job, with a Tiffen system you buy 20 sleds........

Very solid observations. Also, with a PRO system, you could do like I did a few days ago and eat sh*t in the middle of a busy intersection, get up, straighten all of the off-axis bits, and continue to shoot the day out. At anytime I could have called 4 or 5 other Ops with PRO gear and all I'd need is a 5/32's t-handle and some PRO-provided wrenches and I'd have been as good as new.

 

Oh, and if it hadn't been for NAB (fist shake) I could have had a PA take it up to the shop at lunch and had replacement parts that afternoon. Does not get any better than that.

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I for one think that feedback on this forum does more than help operators; it encourages good practices at companies. The folks behind the cinetronic heard a great deal of feedback before their first monitor was ever released, and now they've got two excellent models out there. And changes at MK-V have given european operators more modular options as well, and I can only guess that forum feedback helped bring about these changes.

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To clarify: sachtler Artemis rigs are fully modular, like the PRO, they are based on the 1.5" post system, except for the new "cine pro" that is also available with a 1.8" (carbon fiber) post diameter.

 

So you can use the sachtlers 1.5" Gimbal on a PRO rig, but the donkey box and or battery base are not readily interchangeable.

 

They make however a fully PRO HD compatible 1.8" post with Gimbal and cable loom to put on the PRO d-box and bottom.

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Fantastic and fair points all, & that's really interesting about the Sachtler system.

 

Thanks Robert, rightly said. Apologies if it sounded like I was Tiffen 'bashing', my post was meant to be quite the opposite actually. As you've mentioned feedback to manufacturers is a wonderful function of the forum, and apart from finding out what extras the new rigs offer, my post and those that followed were intended just to give a bit of feedback to Tiffen about the slight frustrations some have aired, caused by no other reason than that we want to stay with Tiffen systems, which certainly isn't a negative motivation, nor is it a condemnation of other manufacturers.

 

CP/Tiffen make awesome Steadicams, & all we're saying is that more modular options would be nice, agreed?

 

If that not going to happen, fair do's, they are great rigs without, but on the release of new rigs it seemed the time to make that point again in just case Tiffen were thinking along those lines for the future.

 

Thanks all!

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Eric;

 

As moderator I do try to read as many posts as possible and I'm thrilled you've seen that endlessly rehashing the same subjects is tedious to u and the rest of us.

 

We got your points and conclusions

 

So glad everyone knows to speak up against excesses too

 

So glad uve added new material to your information on posts

 

Have a wonderful week

 

Janice

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