2013 New rigs - Real World Improvements?

[JobScholtze]

what about the post attacking eric? Please remove that one too

[Janice Arthur]

Job

 

I really was wishing you a good yr and I'm sorry it was interpreted as sarcasm

 

I wish lots of people that I'm sorry if u thought I was being mean

 

My response to Eric was also meant nicely

 

I really do hope u have a good yr personally and any other way

 

Janice

[Robert Starling SOC]

Back to your original post John, there's actually FIVE new offerings out right now including the completley modular PRO Cine Live, that is if we were to consider the new Curve a sled.

 

I won't rehash it here but here is a link to that thread below. We had three days on it at NAB flying the new Angenieux Anamorphic on an Alexa 4:3. I'll update that thread with more photos and initial impressions tonight or tomorrow.

 

http://www.steadicamforum.com/index.php?showtopic=17970

 

Thanks!

 

Robert

[Dean Smollar]

So it looks like the 4 rigs announced from Steadicam are:

 

-Curve: a Merlin that's ONLY meant for GoPro's

 

-Solo: a Glidecam HD-2000 with a monopod extension on the bottom

 

-Archer SP-V: an Archer with some live options

 

-Zephyr V: a Zephyr with some live options

 

I totally understand the additions to the Zephyr and the Archer. Those two rigs are definitely suited to broadcast applications. I'm not fond of the fact that Tiffen doesn't make their equipment modular, and that ops who want these options would have to buy a whole new sled, but I do like that they're adding these options. Business practices aside, the Tiffen employees I have interacted with definitely care about the professional customers and have been attentive to their needs. The follow-through on the business side is a different conversation.

 

The other two, in my opinion, aren't for Steadicam Operators. They're for the consumer (or "prosumer," although I hate that word) market. I'd even venture to say that anything smaller than an Archer2 is "prosumer," as Zephyrs are being purchased more and more by camera owners who would rather do their own thing than hire an op.

 

If Tiffen wants to compete with Glidecam for the casual owner, I say let them. We're a miniscule market comparatively. Sure, we spend way more money per person, but with so few of us the potential for profit is much lower than with the miniature rig market, and a lot of us buy used from each other.

[RobinThwaites]

Hi John

OK so I am going to ignore all the other stuff and come back to your question. The V rigs are a series are rigs designed for operators who do a lot of multi camera work to offer things that the operator would either have or buy or make to make their working life easier. The Solo is responding to customer requests and the Curve is a GoPro accessory.

Happy for you to ring me to chat when I am back in the office next week.

Robin

[Jens Piotrowski SOC]

"OK so I am going to ignore all the other stuff"

 

Seems like a good Tiffen motto...

[Jerry Holway]

Points of information (facts!!) re the modularity of the “V” rigs:

 

For the Archer2 and Shadow rigs, the only difference between the models is nosebox and whether or not each sled comes with a 2^nd monitor and mount. The nosebox is plug and play, i.e., modular. 4 or 5 screws, and a slide in electrical connection, built in.

 

There are three fully modular and user/field upgradeable/switchable noseboxes. You can go from basic, motorized, or shorty “V” config without replacing the whole (expensive) stage just to upgrade.

 

The motors are also plug and play for the 1 or 2 motor upgrade. All versions.

 

The second monitor for the “V” units is also plug and play – no new connectors required. Nothing mechanical to do.

 

The Zephyr V requires no mechanical changes to make the changes, but it does require new drop-in connectors and wires. The kit is user-doable.

 

The names (so many!) are just for the ease of the customer. For instance, if he/she wants the “V” version, all the necessary bits are included, and he/she does not have to wonder if they have properly picked all the right accessory bits to make it work.

[Eric Fletcher S.O.C.]

There's real world modularity and there's Tiffen modularity. I'll take real world

[JobScholtze]

Jerry, the modularity you are talking about is between tiffen rigs in the same class right? I dont think it will mix and match with other brands das it?

Just to set the facts strait?

[Jens Piotrowski SOC]

For me personally modularity is the option of changing or replacing major parts of the sled (d-box, post, Gimbal, battery cage) or arm (springs) on the set when needed in a matter of a few minutes.

 

 

 

Companies that are offering that as a standard to us are:

 

XCS, PRO, Sachtler, MK-V, Betz-tools

[John E Fry]

Thank you Robin & Jerry - that's what I wanted to find out! Apologies if my thread has provoked some unnecessary or unfair comments.

 

So there are user swappable parts coming for certain rigs, which you all must agree is a step in the right direction, & will be most welcomed by those of us who do a lot of live TV or multicam work.

 

John

[Robert Starling SOC]

Good morning!

 

John, in your original post you said among other things: "Indeed, as PRO owners already know, one good, solid, modular & upgradable rig really can last you your career, but Tiffen seem keen to act just as any other big corporation now, bringing out new models regularly & trying to force obsolescence in order to sell the new toys.". Also, no need to apologize to anyone for starting a thread that creates debate, analysis and thought, even if it does get a bit overheated. That has always been the value proposition of this forum for everyone. We learn from one another's mistakes and if we don't as was my case early on, that was stupidity on my behalf. Shame on me.

 

Don't forget to add XCS and Sachtler to that list of modular rigs as well.

 

Modularity must mean different things to different people.

 

In my mind:

 

Modularity means I can swap or upgrade key components such as the top stage, lower junction box, center post and gimbal in a few minutes and that the rig and components are manufactured specifically for that option with things like bayonet or screw top mounts.

 

Modularity means I could have started with a Gen 2 PRO battery hanger 5-10 years ago and have upgraded to the new Gen 3 or 4 TODAY

 

Modularity means when a key component of my rig is damaged in a fall as it was three weeks ago that within five minutes I was able to reach another operator who had what I needed and Production was able to have someone get on a plane with it and fly it here before we started the next day. There were probably 30 people I could call and also Greg Bubb at XCS was on it as well. When problems arise on-set, Production loves an operator who is helping solve the problem for them. Unfortunately I didn't realize I'd hurt my knee until about thirty minutes later and that's not modular. :(

 

Modularity means an aspiring operator on a tight budget can buy older gear or the basics new and upgrade every major component as their career, work demands and budget progresses.

 

Modularity means I can pick the best or my more preferred components from a variety of manufacturers and build exactly what I want. Which again is a great way for an aspiring operator with patience to build a killer full featured rig on the cheap out of what are essentially left over parts from other operators.

 

Modularity means that if I didn't have my XCS Ultimate and I needed a DB 3 and Gen 3 Battery Hanger for my PRO Cine Live for a 3D or other big nasty camera job that I could very likely borrow or rent those components from any one of 100s of operators and not have to buy them much less buy an entirely new rig.

 

Real world Modularity meant that after my fall a few weeks ago, I was able to upgrade to the newer XCS Ultimate 2 from the original XCS Ultimate lower electronics housing that was a complete loss and it was actually less expensive for me to get the newer version.

 

I'm a prime example of someone who learned the benefits of modularity because I bought THREE brand new Tiffen rigs in ten months and still hit their limits and was looking at rig number four in short order. That was a very very expensive and painful $100,000 lesson to learn! Stupid me for failing to listen to other operators who early-on saw me headed down that road and tried to educate me. My failure to buy slow, buy smart and listen to seasoned veterans was very stupid and very costly. I speak from the school of hard knocks on this.

 

Like the Ford vs Chevy debate, everyone has their brand loyalties and favorites but there's no hate amongst us against other brands. We're just trying to educate the aspiring operators and encourage them to investigate their options fully. I now own XCS and PRO rigs and they both have their place in my business as did Steadicam in the early days.

 

Is it fair and equal in the scheme of what I personally define modularity as to claim that swapping out a nose box or plugging in a little program monitor or adding a motor is "modularity"? That's for others to decide. In my mind, those are accessory options not primary components which is sort of like saying you can change batteries or swap IDX to Anton Bauer battery plates and that makes a brand modular. My question is can you start with an Archer or Shadow or an older Clipper/Ultra and do a complete upgrade or swap major components to get to a full Ultra2 or from an Ultra2 to a lighter weight Shadow for live jobs or trade parts with another operator in an emergency?

 

While some posts here may on the surface appear to be Tiffen bashing, I for one received extraordinary support from them as a customer and they did everything possible to facilitate my career and take care of my gear. I owe a great deal of my early success to their support. As my career advanced I simply grew out of the "all in one box" closed system. By then I was better educated about the benefits of other brands and the straw that broke the camel's back for me was when my operating became limited by what later came to be the G50 arm debacle which you can read about ad-nausea in other threads.

 

At that point I had no choice but to buy an entire new system which was an XCS Ultimate, PRO Titan arm and PRO Vest while still owning the Steadicam rig which took about ten months to sell. Yet another hit to the wallet.

 

Comparing Steadicam to PRO, XCS and now Sachtler rigs is not an apples to apples comparison. If you've noticed, those brands do quite well strictly on word of mouth with little or no marketing or advertising hype.

 

Who I'd like to hear from are the new generation of up and coming operators like Will Demeritt, Andrew Ansnick, Twojay Dhillon, Tim Yoder, Payton Peterson and others who I believe went modular from the start.

 

Thanks for your time and have a wonderful weekend!

 

Robert

[Rob Hess]

Anyone who went to NAB get any word on pricing and availability of these rigs (that is, the two larger ones)?

[Robert Starling SOC]

If you're asking about the new PRO Cine Live it is $19,000. Package deal with PRO vest and Pro Atlas arm is around $32,000+/-

 

Robert

[Rob Hess]

If you're asking about the new PRO Cine Live it is $19,000. Package deal with PRO vest and Pro Atlas arm is around $32,000+/-

 

Robert

 

Thanks Robert. I was primarily referring to the Tiffen manufactured rigs from the original post (Zephyr V, Archer SP-V), but that's helpful info too.