How much money do I charge clients?

[RonBaldwin]

Mike, the rates in FL are amazing...I am moving there!!!

[Mark Schlicher]

Mike McGowan is a classy guy. Ian, you should take his advice and follow his example.

[Richard W. Davis]

Ron is a classy guy too... it's just a different class. ; ) ... and his advice is sage as well.

 

Rich Davis

LA

(another middle ager)

[Daniel Stilling DFF]

I remember (barely) my early twenties...

All advice here is good. Follow that and you'll be golden. Remember: talk to the ops. in your area. Try not to piss them off too much. They will be the key to the beginning of your career...

Getting old is not for weaklings, specially having to carry that rig along the way. Do you think you can do that? :)

 

(middle ager here!)

[Ian Collishaw]

At least this is in the newbie section where it belongs. Don't post video footage if you don't want to be critiqued. I suppose the reactions you are getting stem fom the fact that at leat once a week some new op shows up and posts his/her reel asking how it is (it is usually horrific), then tbey are compleyely surprised that we do not drop to our collective knees to stroke/cradle/suck. Like I have said before, it is not unlike some kid who buys a low end sports car, makes a few laps around the track then stops by a professional race forum to post the bad times.

 

As far as rates...have you bothered to talk to other ops in your area to see what they reccommend? What is the client used to paying (client possibly meaning bride's father). Do a little homework and check your area out 1st before coming to an international forum and asking the question you did and getting all butt-hurt with the responses from us middle-aged professionals.

I never said I didn't want to be critiqued, either. If you can even call what Eric did as "critique". It certainly isn't what someone would label as constructive criticism. I mean, seriously, another forum member sent me a PM telling me to ignore that guy. This might say something.

 

I live in New Orleans... so there's me, and a three time emmy winner who own steadicams. Which makes it kind of hard to figure out how much to charge based on his rates, seeing as the guy has three emmy's and has been operating almost as long as I've been alive. Which is why I'm coming to you people, and apparently getting butthurt at your responses, to boot.

 

 

Okay you big meanies! Ian, the 'art' of charging and getting what you deserve is tricky for the most experienced of us. Many of us that have been doing steadicam for a lot of years have an agent who helps negotiate our rates. I personally love what I do and for the most part would say yes to almost any rate offered to me, which is why I always defer to my Agent (who has no problem telling clients what I'm worth)....

 

That being said, I can give you some ball park figures and you can figure out what rates make the most sense...

 

On a high budget feature film (say Star Wars 7) an 'A' camera / steadicam operator can make between $250 and $300 an hour with a ten hour minimum per day and perhaps $10,000 per week for steadicam rental. Now that is an operator who has probably done 20+ years as a steadicam operator and worked on multiple academy award winning, box office smashing feature films and brings 2 fully loaded steadicam PRO rigs worth about half a million dollars. (If you are currently the 'A' camera / steadicam operator on Star Wars 7, feel free to correct my numbers).

 

Another very skilled steadicam operator may do a hit, network television show (is there such a thing?) and may make as much as $100/hr and $5000 a week for rental????

 

Yet another operator may do a big Nike or Gatorade commercial and get $2500/10 and $2000 for his rig.....

 

And any of those guys may do a 'favor' for a DP or director or producer and do a music video for $1500 bucks cash all in if they have nothing else going on.

 

When I first started (in 1998), before I got an agent, I was happy to get $850/10 and $750/day for my steadicam PRO and Preston. That was my 'good' commercial rate... Keep in mind I pretty much sucked in 1998.

 

Guys who work for networks like Telemundo and use the networks 'in house' steadicam get something like $750 for 10 to operate the steadicam.

 

I've heard you can hire a steadicam operator with a glide cam or something like that to shoot your wedding for about $1000 (maybe less).

 

I hope that at least gives you a ballpark idea...

 

Finally, I didn't start doing steadicam until I was 24 so your already 4 years better than I was when I started.

 

And yes, take the steadicam class, it is the single best investment you can make in your career.

 

Finally, some straight answers. Thank you.

[Ian Collishaw]

Thank everyone who has replied, I might want to add. You took time to communicate with me, and that doesn't come back to you.

 

So yeah, thanks.

[Eric Fletcher S.O.C.]

 

At least this is in the newbie section where it belongs. Don't post video footage if you don't want to be critiqued. I suppose the reactions you are getting stem fom the fact that at leat once a week some new op shows up and posts his/her reel asking how it is (it is usually horrific), then tbey are compleyely surprised that we do not drop to our collective knees to stroke/cradle/suck. Like I have said before, it is not unlike some kid who buys a low end sports car, makes a few laps around the track then stops by a professional race forum to post the bad times.

As far as rates...have you bothered to talk to other ops in your area to see what they reccommend? What is the client used to paying (client possibly meaning bride's father). Do a little homework and check your area out 1st before coming to an international forum and asking the question you did and getting all butt-hurt with the responses from us middle-aged professionals.

 

I never said I didn't want to be critiqued, either. If you can even call what Eric did as "critique". It certainly isn't what someone would label as constructive criticism.

 

I live in New Orleans... so there's me, and a three time emmy winner who own steadicams. Which makes it kind of hard to figure out how much to charge based on his rates, seeing as the guy has three emmy's and has been operating almost as long as I've been alive. Which is why I'm coming to you people,.

Well you do seem butthurt. My post was a critique but you don't understand that, which is fine, that was posted while sitting on a dolly during a setup, so its not going to be more than it is. As for you and your single source of competition in Louisiana, I think the other 10+ operators are going to take exception to your post.

[Mikael Kern]

I suggest you:

• get some jobs as a camera operator
• study photography, cinematography, art etc.
• learn about story telling, lighting, editing.
• meet other cameramen and Steadicam ops. in your area
• do freebees, student films
• buy the book
• take a workshop
• practice

 

And as Eric wrote from his dolly: Framing, horizon, timing...

 

- Mikael Kern

[RonBaldwin]

Ron is a classy guy too... it's just a different class. ; ) ... and his advice is sage as well.

 

Rich Davis

LA

(another middle ager)

thanks buddy...I was going to write "wrong" then I saw "different class" so I'll let that slide :-)

 

But...I don't seem to be able to get rates anywhere near Mike's in either NY or LA on hit tv shows so perhaps class = loser?

[Osvaldo Silvera SOC]

There are only like 6 of us here in South Florida, and just be warned, we have guards at all the Major Highways and out on the coastal waters.. NO new Rigs or Ops are allowed!

 

Well, except for Manny Bonilla, Tore Livia and Rob V, they're almost residents , they're here so much.

 

And Rob... No good trails here for your Hummer, only lakes to ford thru.

[RonBaldwin]

I will ford my way in via the Atlantic side...the truck is alum so salt corrosion won't be too bad. I gota get there -- have bills to pay and that humidity tax will at least be double what every other op in the world makes (no wonder Dave Kimleman was so quiet about it when I worked with him last season)!

 

I will alert the ladies of Jumbos to pack their bags

[Alan Rencher]

If you think Eric's criticism is rough, just wait until you get yelled at by a director or DP in front of the whole crew because you blew the shot. It's good that you know what to work on now, so you can practice and not get fired.

[Ian Collishaw]

I think Eric's criticism is certainly true, it's just not what I was asking for at the time in any way.

 

If I blew a shot on set, then I blew a shot. If I get yelled at for doing that, then I get yelled at.

 

Kind of hard for me to blow a shot I didn't even choreograph, though, isn't it?

[Eric Fletcher S.O.C.]

Kind of hard for me to blow a shot I didn't even choreograph, though, isn't it?

So now the excuse is, "I posted a video I didn't choreograph therefore all the basic operating mistake I made don't really count". What are you going to say when the director and DP work out the shot and you are there just to operate it?

 

Everything I pointed out is BASIC operating. Look at any of our reels and see if we are making those mistakes. Last night I did a shot that was only discussed, not rehearsed and we moved on after the first take, this shot had five story points in it and we never choreographed it.

[Victor Lazaro]

If you we're a DP, you wouldn't show a shot that was blown up or underexposed. The mistakes you did are similar.

 

If I was a producer, DP or director, I would think twice before hiring you from this video that you presented to us as a Demo video of your talent, asking how much people would pay you to work after watching this video.

Answer, I wouldn't.

 

The critics they gave you are not artistic decisions, they are technical errors. We never criticized the subject or the intention of the movement. The rule is generally, who only your best shots as a demo reel, if that's your best shot... I also fail at some shots for various reason (experience is part of these reasons) but of I had to show some shots I did, I would only show the nice ones where there is no basic technical errors.

If you cannot take critics, good luck working with a demanding DP or director, you're up for a ride (hint take the critic, say yes, and correct your mistakes, move on to the next shot)