Discussion with a Producer about the MOVI

[Michael Hauer]

The most important thing to remember about the Movi having used it on a job as a bcam to steadicam, is 12 pounds. Seriously its like people freaking out about the pilot. In order to use it properly every cable and accessory has to be tailored to its extremely demanding weight and pan-tilt clearance restrictions. Also 12 pounds is even pushing it and almost necessitates an easy rig to prevent fatigue, which limits its usefulness to a basic steadicam range. The whole trick to this rig is keeping the camera as light as possible so you can whip the lens around in unconventional ways that few other tools can do. That is going to be its niche

[Blaine Baker]

Kyle thanks for posting, I knew that Alexa M was going to be put on the thing soon enough, and that it would be even more marketable then.

 

Just some thoughts I've had since this thing came out...

 

1) How excited are you all to see TONS of stuff like this with unbelievable amounts of unmotivated camera movement?! (Joking, obviously... but the difference between what we do and what someone wants to see done with the movi is like seperating men from boys... or women from girls... whatever you want)

 

2) I was hoping to see a lock off from this thing... finally that last shot gave us one... well kinda sorta, not really.

 

I think those points alone will allow us to keep our jobs as steadicam operators, as well as really seperate the worlds greatest story tellers from those who just want to move the camera around because well... oh right, they werent thinking about why they wanted to move the camera. I can't wait to add one to the tool kit, with out a doubt, but all the people who've rented one that I've talked to in Chicago tell me they'd have been better off with steadicam, and that the movi isn't going to take over any time soon.

 

Just my 2 cents

[kiranreddy ss]

I still very vividly remember when Red and others started it all about digital, almost everyone wrote them off only to see that Film is almost DEAD in seven years time. I am sure the movi will be a different beast in one or two years down the line. So lets embrace technology for its innovations and adapt accordingly. There are situations that a movi will excel and there are situations where a steadicam will excel and especially with powerful cameras like the carbon dragon on the movi, it will be advantage movi for operators with good practise and perfection.

[Janice Arthur]

Hi all;

 

What I find interesting here is ironic;

 

1) many of us (including me) would like to buy one and have it avail when needed and take the rental money.

2) the creators have got to be amused at the 'it's crap or bad or has promise' but I still want one!!!

3) we admit the device has merit for the most part and will improve with use and evolution.

 

I would be thrilled to be one the end/sale of this device because we all want to buy one!

 

It's like the chef who makes a maybe bad entree but the orders keep pouring in. Funny!

 

BTW I've had a client ask if I had one because he wanted both on a shoot.

 

Janice.

 

Have a fabulous 2014.

[David Steel]

I have recently worked with the Movi on a commercial and there were numerous problems that we came across!

 

the package we had on the movi was a Epic, 24mm ziess standard and a single channel preston.

 

first, was that we spent until 11pm camera testing the day before the shoot working out how to balance the rig and also how to supply power to the camera and preston etc. that was very boring.....

 

how we finally got the rig to be balanced and within the weight limit was a mission in it self, we had to fully strip down the epic including losing the battery handle, we had to power the camera and preston from a li-po battery attached to the handle of the rig as well as have the MDR attached to the other side of the handle. oh and also the one motor cable was too thick and not flexible enough so that interfered with the balance.

 

we also had cooke s4 minis that we wanted to use but they were too heavy (made the rig too front heavy so we had to go with the zeiss standard as it is the lightest). Cool that a rig cant handle even the light weight lenses

we also could not use the LMB15 matt box for the same reason :( so we had to tape filters to the lens, which is awesome outdoors on sunny / cloudy days.

 

oh and forget a live feed to the director! :o the handset operator had a mini wevi linked to his monitor but that kept dropping picture during every take. Awesome......

 

now i have finished the rant about the technical side, how about that operating side? hmmmm

as you hold a movi your arms tence from holding the weight in front of you so every foot step gets transferred into the rig and can be clearly seen. Also i do like my video games but operating a camera off a remote control car handset is very difficult and sloppy.

 

All in all great rig......its fully going to replace steadicam......... :blink:

[Paul Watt]

Well, I totally agree it's not going to replace a steadicam on it's own, ever. The weight restrictions and ergonomics make it a very different beast. But I've put together a Movi Epic system that works pretty well. Antons power AKS (Heden/Bartech/Paralinx+) and the camera, and I've got an easyrig 9" extension for long, slow or lockoff style shots. It takes lots of practice, just like a steadicam, and the shots it produces look different than a steadicam. I've got balancing down pretty good now too, between 5 and 10 minutes at the most.

 

We've had it out the heli door at 100mm, and out of an open vehicle doing 100kmh, and it held the shots well both times. So it's got it's purposes. It's much harder to accurately hold a frame so far, since it lacks the direct contact control you have on a steadicam. Pretty cool thing tho.

[Lars Erik]

From a site that sells MOVI Freefly...

"Product WARNING!!

Do NEVER operate ANY gimbals WITHOUT balanced correctly.

Never touch or have any resistance to the gimbal when power is connected!!

Even a small unbalance or resistance, WILL damage your gimbal by overheating the motors , and causes so much generated heat. The drive motors lose magnetic strength , and get very hot and smell burned."

Now I really want one...

[Robert Starling SOC]

Below is the assessment of a Producer who I know and respect. Don't shoot the messenger I'm just passing it on. What I will say though is OUR perspective of the Movi is not the same as a Producer who is concerned with time and money. This one passage is my favorite though:

 

"(6) The price at $15k is reasonable for this kind of tech, but when you really evaluate the product and understand how much more costs it brings to a production, you begin to realize spending that $15k for a real steadicam operator is almost always going to be the better deal and the better shot."

 

That's his quote not mine but I still like it! ;-)

 

We work in a world of many different tools to do a job and there's more than one way or one tool for some jobs and some jobs are best left to a specific tool and talent.

 

Robert

*****************************

"We had the chance to play with the Movi while at RED Studios Hollywood a few months ago. It's a great concept and kind of amazing it hadn't been done before. It comes with significant baggage however.

(1) The system requires 3 operators. You need a driver to hold the thing, a pilot to handle pan and tilt, and then a focus puller using a wireless unit to pull focus. That's a lot more overhead for a production.
(2) The unit with camera is still heavy requiring frequent breaks for rest and typically, 2-3 drivers to trade off on shoots.
(3) The tiny motors do not handle vertical movements well and the overall motion is not as good as a quality steadicam operator. In very few circumstances, the Movi is a better fit, but generally speaking, you get a lot more bang out of a steadi-operator.
(4) The thing is a bitch to balance and the downtime for even a simple lens change is aggravating.
(5) You need lighter/custom cables for powering the rig plus cameras and you also need to deal with a multitude of batteries and chargers. (Something I absolutely hate.) Inevitably, you or someone on the crew fucks up and you've got a dead hand unit or motors and your production is waiting on a charge.
(6) The price at $15k is reasonable for this kind of tech, but when you really evaluate the product and understand how much more costs it brings to a production, you begin to realize spending that $15k for a real steadicam operator is almost always going to be the better deal and the better shot.
(7) There are a lot of points of breakage on the unit and I have yet to see a single production that had more than one Movi on hand or even available on stand-by. When you build a production around something like this, you're screwed if it fails. Steadi-gear is a different picture. A lot less to go around and not much that can't be fixed with tools."

************************

[Lawrence Karman]

Well, I totally agree it's not going to replace a steadicam on it's own, ever. The weight restrictions and ergonomics make it a very different beast. But I've put together a Movi Epic system that works pretty well. Antons power AKS (Heden/Bartech/Paralinx+) and the camera, and I've got an easyrig 9" extension for long, slow or lockoff style shots. It takes lots of practice, just like a steadicam, and the shots it produces look different than a steadicam. I've got balancing down pretty good now too, between 5 and 10 minutes at the most.

 

We've had it out the heli door at 100mm, and out of an open vehicle doing 100kmh, and it held the shots well both times. So it's got it's purposes. It's much harder to accurately hold a frame so far, since it lacks the direct contact control you have on a steadicam. Pretty cool thing tho.

 

What camera and lens combinations are you putting on there? Epic?

[Andrew Stone]

Good to see a producer that gets

 

Below is the assessment of a Producer who I know and respect. Don't shoot the messenger I'm just passing it on. What I will say though is OUR perspective of the Movi is not the same as a Producer who is concerned with time and money...

 

The price at $15k is reasonable for this kind of tech, but when you really evaluate the product and understand how much more costs it brings to a production, you begin to realize spending that $15k for a real steadicam operator is almost always going to be the better deal and the better shot.

(7) There are a lot of points of breakage on the unit and I have yet to see a single production that had more than one Movi on hand or even available on stand-by. When you build a production around something like this, you're screwed if it fails. Steadi-gear is a different picture. A lot less to go around and not much that can't be fixed with tools."

************************

Good to see a producer that gets most of issues with a MOVI over a Steadicam & Operator.

 

Still not seeing many of the key problems fleshed out specifically, like controlled composition and consistently managing headroom in a shot. There is the cost but there is also the quality of the shots that come out of it that are usable when you are working from a script.

[Janice Arthur]

Hi all;

 

Here is a point that may not be spelled out and why MOVI is important to us.

 

We are the camera movement specialists in each of our worlds and Producers/Directors/UPMs want quick answers.

 

If it involves movement they call us and that's what we want! We want to be the person with the answers. A tech who, had taken a workshop on the MOVI, showed up and it worked just fine, sound familiar?

 

Somebody on the set wants to do X and someone else says "Get a MOVI" they call us because we have all the other movement type stuff and understand balance.

 

In the new days of shrinking niche business and more competition you don't want to loose those phone calls.

 

You (us the Steadicam/movement experts) want the phone to ring because both we might/should have one or we can tell them that's not the best way or yes you need a Steadicam. Either way you may be on the set already or you should have me there with all my solutions. Hire me I solve your problems!

 

Lastly as we are seeing its its own niche and someone should have it on the truck, that Steadicam guy/gal has it and its our rental! Again you might be able to talk yourself into some work!

 

As this device settles in if we don't have it we someone else will, now its just figuring out cost/income on how to get it working enough to justify the expense.

 

I think of DSLRs we hated them but lots of us bought them just so we could be ready when it was called for, I think this will be the same thing.

 

The other thing is everyone is constantly looking for new looks and devices to get those looks this is one more look that DPs are exploring too. It will be interesting if just for that.

[Joe Lawry]

Janice is right, we are movement specialists. I was luckily enough to have the opportunity to be in the right place and time when a production company I freelanced too purchased a Movi. It was bought for user under a Multirotor UAV (Freeflys original implementation).

 

Since its arrival i've put every camera I can get my hands on into it, Epic, C300, BMD, FS100, 5D and i've played a lot with the hand held mode. Balance, yes its tricky but with my steadicam balance knowledge its not hard, the whole unit just has to be neutrally balanced. I am now happy to have a conversation with a producer and explain to what tool is right for the job, the movi or my pro.

 

I really dislike the unit handheld. Majestic mode is terrible and as everyone has said getting production to pay for 2 (actually 3) operators is hard. Under our Multirotor however, the Movi is worth every cent. Flying the epic has now become a breeze and we're fielding calls from all over the country for aerial work.

[Thomas English]

Janice is wrong, I don't want to waste days working with a Movi when I could be on a proper job working Steadicam/wheels/sticks and other kit that works reliably.

 

I don't want to be associated with a bit of kit that doesn't actually work within the on-set constraints 90% of the time. It's all well and good people showing these 10% of shots that look incredible but the 90% of the time when the DoP is glancing over still waiting for a camera after 20 minutes I don't want to be the face in the firing line.

 

Your argument works for operators and technicians that are new to the industry and are trying to make a name in sub-budget jobs but this is a professional forum . Its commercial suicide for an established operator to associate oneself with this piece of kit as it currently stands. The Movi will not be around in any volume in 18 months. It might return in 3 to 4 years and that is a different conversation for a different time and tech.

 

For now its a new piece of kit that doesn't work trying to compete for shots in a VERY CONSERVATIVE industry. If anyone thinks that reliability, speed and conservativism aren't the hallmarks of success in this industry they simply haven't made any meaningful money in this industry. We hide behind new toys, new gadgets and innovations only to slightly improve how we have shot shots for 50 years.

 

If people think these pieces of kit are just bits you can have on standby in the truck to get a bit of rental on they are naively misinformed as to the nature of bleeding edge innovative bits of junk. The nature of a bit of kit like this is CONSTANT maintenance and customization. This isn't a preston that can be pulled out of a case or an easy rig you can get a quick £70 on. This is a super finicky stabilized head. There will be 10% of people out there able to deliver good shots with their heavily customized and perfected setups and good luck to those people that are going to dedicate their time and money on this endeavour. For myself an most working proffesionals the effort to return ratio is CURRENTLY right out of whack.

 

Most of us didn't buy DSLR's. In fact hardly any working Steadicam Operators bought a DSLR to offer to production. Plenty of DoP's did and regretted it because they got bogged down delivering DSLR look. They got left behind when things changed again.

 

We peddle reliability, speed and what was in the script. We should stick to that. When the Movi becomes reliable we will peddle it. Not for a few years. Granted we should keep an eye on it.

 

Granted as a non-professional experimental tool it would be fun to play with. I have been wanting to test it with Planetarium fulldome camera setups and seemingly it solves some of the issues we have had there. I have access to a Movi and start testing next month on a job BUT this isn't a professional bottom line endeavour.

 

Pioneers get arrows and settlers get land.

[Alan G. Kelly SOC]

Good topic. It's not broad and deserves answers. I’m not specifically answering what I think but what I would say to a producer.

 

I’d first ask if the DP was going to be the second op. If so suggest that they talk to the 1^st AD to see if they would invest in a second 3^rd AD. I'd tell them that anytime a shot is being blocked or rehearsed you’re going to need two operators. Anytime the DP is on the floor for lighting they'll have to be the tethered with the 3rd to get them back to the village. No 1st is going to want to loose their 3rd for this so they'll gripe and hopefully put a fire under the PM's butt to hire more. In turn the PM will hopefully makes some noise about dropping the movi.

 

I’ll also talk about the problem that the movi is based entirely on wireless operating. If we’re in the middle of a shot and we loose the connection the shot's dead. Plenty of locations and conditions on any shoot of length to justify concern for signal interference.

 

If we’re on the rig and we loose the signal to video village, I keep shooting and get the shot.

 

 

For us we know steadicam works in actual practice because the weight dispersion keeps the physical strain manageable. Moving around with a camera in front of your body -watch how fast anyone operating it burns out. Day after day in the rig sounds less painful. Bet you there will be more spills because op's will be more reckless in their movements.

Edited January 11, 2014 by Alan G. Kelly

[Joe Lawry]

I'll rephrase my post.

 

Jance was right, we are movement specialists, we should know about the technology, when it works, when it doesn't. I wasn't saying we should all run out and buy Movi's Thomas.