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Cinetronic: the Elephant in the room - updated discussion


William Demeritt

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I own 2 Cinetronic Gen 2's and i'm using them with my PRO CineLive sleds. One is at Big Brother Live and the other is at So You Think You Can Dance and I use them every week on these live shows. I am using the tally sensors that Terry West made (specially for the CineLive sled paired with Cinetronic Gen2) and there are no issues with tally at all. I would only recommend getting tallys from Terry as he knows what is required with the Gen2 w/PRO CineLive so I don't even have to think about it. Chris at Cinetronic added the necessary tally resistors when I told him I was using his Gen2 with the PRO sled and everything works beautifully. When you're on a live show you can't risk anything going wrong and if I thought there were risks with this monitor I wouldn't put them on live shows. Everything has been solid and I will continue to use them.

 

I've also used the Cinetronic with Alexas and as long as you make sure the alexa output is not in PsF everything is fine. If this is the worst thing that's happened, I can accept that. I hear it will be corrected in a future firmware update. This is the only monitor I will use outdoors as it's the only one I can see my image in direct sunlight from any angle.

 

If any fellow operator wants to check them out in action just send me an email and I will invite you to the set.

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Just to be clear: my goal with this discussion is not to create a forum for bashing Cinetronic, even if that is the undercurrent of this particular topic.

 

My goal here is to shed light on the issues that they are working on so new customers in the Steadicam community know what to expect from their purchase at this moment in time, and in the future.

 

Many people aren't aware of the software issues, hardware issues or image issues, and as a colleague or friend, I've found myself in the position of sharing that information, often to their disappointment. I wanted a centralized, easily read brief on current problems being addressed. It's wonderful that the company is trying to address them in a timely manner, but in the mean time, I felt the community should be able to see what issues and bugs are currently being squashed.

 

For many operators, the monitor is still perfect for their needs. Others may hold off on their purchase knowing about the delivery delays and lack of digital bubble level. Being informed is the goal here, and so far, nobody has shown signs of needlessly bashing Cinetronic or the Gen 2.

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To be clear, this is currently the best viewable lcd monitor on the market. It is still evolving as issues are encountered and worked on.

 

Chris has been very responsive in addressing the challenges and is sometimes depending on outside sources, like every other manufacturer.

 

That can cause delays and he's not happy about that either, I'm sure.

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My first few days with the Gen 2:

I bought the Gen 1 and was thrilled with the daylight viewing and angle viewing. No hood shade, no grip carrying a flag. It was the monitor we had all been waiting for! Chris has been great with keeping me updated when I have inquired about various issues. I was eager to receive the new monitor. It arrived 2 months after the estimated shipping date. Then I was too busy for several weeks to go pick it up across the border. I finally just finished 5 day calls scattered over 10 days with the monitor. No issues of over-heating, still bright, and now light weight. However, I am disappointed that the peaking and frame-lines settings don't hold between takes. It's unacceptable. I can't reset them in between takes when I power the monitor down. They are deep in the menus so not fast to access. As I came in as a day call with no prep, I tried to set the monitor up in the morning but I couldn't figure out how to get it to SDI (defaults as composite). So, I had to wait till lunch to use it. At first, it would also default back to composite when powered down/ up. That seemed to work itself out... somehow. Now it stays on SDI when powered back up. I was wondering if there is a "lock" button for these features that I am missing? The "enable" button doesn't lock the settings. I was under the impression that image flip would be in place with this version. I know they are working on it. I don't understand what all the other functions in the menus are used for and it might be more useful to include a waveform or inclinometer. The brightness buttons on the screen don't seem to work as well as adjusting them in the menu... or am I imagining this? I want to support a small hardworking business that is North American based. But I am a small business too and working in this expensive game of steadicam. Other monitor companies are catching up. And perhaps the Small HD has? Will I have to pay again for these upgrades that should be in place already?

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Had my cinetronic for about 6 weeks now, used it on primarily live television jobs but had a few production shoots ..
am based in Sydney, Australia. so dealing with issues is much more difficult, cant just send it back as its considerable cost.

 

CONS

-Its already been mentioned about the lack of communication but it did frustrate me severely. never able to get anything except for a answering machine when I call.
-no clear timeline on anything, awaiting the level and some functionality which was assumed to be there when released (histogram).
-ordered with the assumption that tally would be built into the 8pin, mated with the GPI Pro Cinelive, that wasn't the case, discussion with chris revealed this was a option, but not an option that was asked or mentioned at all when it was being built. currently using an external zalax tally system till I can find some resolve which may unfortunately means buying more cables
-all this talk of the monitor being waterproof, or water resistant, well, the physicality of the monitor is, but you cant get water on the touch panel, capacitive touchscreens active with water, buttons are actived in the rain, had to cover with pastic .. chris mentioned there will be a touch panel lock out feature in the future (timeline?), this was a main reason for my purchase, operating on live sport involved any kind of weather

-unable to update firmware currently, no access to a windows machine.
-yoke keeps coming loose, not sure why the tension cant be set and it stays that way.
-paid for an AB plate on the back, was a considerable additional cost, but the plate was a copy plate, not an original, and the battery is loose when mated, very annoyed as an original AB plate isn't that expensive, and I cant really use it if the battery is vibrating. have to tape it down.
-using an OB camera which is outputting a 50i signal get severe ghosting of the image, to the point of distraction..
-bit worried about the heat issue, coming into an australian summer, it gets extremely hot, hasn't been yet, so will be able to make judgement when that happens

PROS
-monitor is bright, can see it under any conditions,
-well built, feel it will last a long time as long as the firmware continues to update
-light when you need it to be, and with a battery makes a good weight
-got a picture up with all the cameras i've used (sony 1500, alexia, f65, c300, dslr)

thats where I currently stand, this is my only monitor, it is a new setup i've purchased, I am confident issues will be resolved one day, annoying I do not know when though. I would probably purchase again if had the chance, but there are other options which look very enticing currently, would want to have a comparison with the small DP7 PRO HB when it is released ..

Justin Besser

Edited by Justin Besser
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Just an observation regarding the Small DP7 PRO HB: it does not look very yoke-friendly as the power connectors and BNC's are on the side of the monitor and would be inhibited or blocked by a yoke. At least that is what I can observe from their web site pictures. And in my experience, a yoke is key for visibility with an LCD monitor.

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Had my cinetronic for about 6 weeks now, used it on primarily live television jobs but had a few production shoots ..

am based in Sydney, Australia. so dealing with issues is much more difficult, cant just send it back as its considerable cost.

 

CONS

-Its already been mentioned about the lack of communication but it did frustrate me severely. never able to get anything except for a answering machine when I call.

-no clear timeline on anything, awaiting the level and some functionality which was assumed to be there when released (histogram).

-ordered with the assumption that tally would be built into the 8pin, mated with the GPI Pro Cinelive, that wasn't the case, discussion with chris revealed this was a option, but not an option that was asked or mentioned at all when it was being built. currently using an external zalax tally system till I can find some resolve which may unfortunately means buying more cables

-all this talk of the monitor being waterproof, or water resistant, well, the physicality of the monitor is, but you cant get water on the touch panel, capacitive touchscreens active with water, buttons are actived in the rain, had to cover with pastic .. chris mentioned there will be a touch panel lock out feature in the future (timeline?), this was a main reason for my purchase, operating on live sport involved any kind of weather

-unable to update firmware currently, no access to a windows machine.

-yoke keeps coming loose, not sure why the tension cant be set and it stays that way.

-paid for an AB plate on the back, was a considerable additional cost, but the plate was a copy plate, not an original, and the battery is loose when mated, very annoyed as an original AB plate isn't that expensive, and I cant really use it if the battery is vibrating. have to tape it down.

-using an OB camera which is outputting a 50i signal get severe ghosting of the image, to the point of distraction..

-bit worried about the heat issue, coming into an australian summer, it gets extremely hot, hasn't been yet, so will be able to make judgement when that happens

 

PROS

-monitor is bright, can see it under any conditions,

-well built, feel it will last a long time as long as the firmware continues to update

-light when you need it to be, and with a battery makes a good weight

-got a picture up with all the cameras i've used (sony 1500, alexia, f65, c300, dslr)

 

thats where I currently stand, this is my only monitor, it is a new setup i've purchased, I am confident issues will be resolved one day, annoying I do not know when though. I would probably purchase again if had the chance, but there are other options which look very enticing currently, would want to have a comparison with the small DP7 PRO HB when it is released ..

 

Justin Besser

 

Re: battery plate: put some 1x1 cm big squares of soft side velcro on the plate, this will fill the gap.

 

Re: yoke

 

Replaced my leather washes with rubber washers, fixed the issue.

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The SmallHD power connector and BNC are on the base - http://www.smallhd.com/products/dp7-pro/images/Design-img12.jpg

 

The connections out of the side are audio in and out, probably not a problem for any of us - http://www.smallhd.com/products/dp7-pro/images/Design-img1.jpg

And it looks like the only composite video connection is on the side, so that could be inconvenient in those instances where you still need to have SD.

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I use the gen 2 as my stand alone monitor and have not had it for long(took about 6 weeks). So far I am very happy with the viewing angle and brightness.Menu a bit complicated for quick adjustments.Would like to see monitor reverse and flips in future for shooting upside down.WAITING for level ....update just on windows anoying.

 

Communication with Chris normally he responds to my emails within the same day.Its work in progress which I can respect and so far I think this monitor is on the path to becoming great.

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-paid for an AB plate on the back, was a considerable additional cost, but the plate was a copy plate, not an original, and the battery is loose when mated, very annoyed as an original AB plate isn't that expensive, and I cant really use it if the battery is vibrating. have to tape it down.

 

 

Re: battery plate: put some 1x1 cm big squares of soft side velcro on the plate, this will fill the gap.

 

 

 

Not really the point, Jens. I was a little disappointed myself after paying $225 extra for an Anton Bauer plate, only to receive a cheap generic brand plate that doesn't seat the batteries quite as well.

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I agree it would have been nice if it was a genuine plate, but this one seems solid and fine. I have always had to use velcro on all AB plates to stop things from vibrating.

 

I would really like to see the ghosting issue sorted with 50hz video tho.

 

The bubble level, an on screen voltage read out, proper colours, no ghosting and an image flip etc. Then it will do for 99% of everything I ever need.

 

Lets hope it can all be done in a timely manner.

 

Rick.

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-paid for an AB plate on the back, was a considerable additional cost, but the plate was a copy plate, not an original, and the battery is loose when mated, very annoyed as an original AB plate isn't that expensive, and I cant really use it if the battery is vibrating. have to tape it down.

 

 

Re: battery plate: put some 1x1 cm big squares of soft side velcro on the plate, this will fill the gap.

 

 

 

Not really the point, Jens. I was a little disappointed myself after paying $225 extra for an Anton Bauer plate, only to receive a cheap generic brand plate that doesn't seat the batteries quite as well.

 

Hi Afton,

 

i was trying to offer a fix, not a justification for the aftermarket plate, I myself like the original plates and batteries! for that matter, way better...

 

and yes, some sort of timeline would be nice for the level and signal compatibility issue...

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The SmallHD power connector and BNC are on the base - http://www.smallhd.com/products/dp7-pro/images/Design-img12.jpg

 

The connections out of the side are audio in and out, probably not a problem for any of us - http://www.smallhd.com/products/dp7-pro/images/Design-img1.jpg

And it looks like the only composite video connection is on the side, so that could be inconvenient in those instances where you still need to have SD.

 

I stand corrected. Thanks for pointing that out

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