Premium Members David Allen Grove Posted July 4, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 30+ Operators saw it after Cinegear, that's not Vaporware.Eric Fletcher Hmmm. I STILL haven't seen this device. I wish I would have known about the super double secret showing after cinegear. Were there any master series or ultra owners invited to this event? Just curious. This does remind me of the Blair Witch hype though.. lots of mystery before the premiere. To be fair, Howard said he would be willing to show it to me the next time he is L.A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Peter Abraham Posted July 4, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 You seem to have SERIOUS issues with ANYTHING not produced by CP/Tiffen, they have had their time, now others are moving forward with real innovation. I have accurately pointed out the simple fact that much ado has been made with veiled " I can't tell you but gosh do I know " comments in this Forum, in the last year or two. If I am not mistaken, there was a breathless day to day countdown about a year ago before some huge trade show that was the be the unveiling............then..............uh.............well. Vapors. If it is real, then where's the web site? Why the secrecy? One can hardly demand an NDA from the entire planet, either it is a prototype that should in no way ever be discussed in public ( a situation I am intimately familiar with ), or it is an item for sale. It's fascinating. The inventor says people have seen it ( unless your name is on the patent, Eric, I've got no interest in your claims of what it is, or whom has or has not seen it. ). That's neat. Where are these people? Why are they not showing photographs, talking about purchasing it, showing clips of what this device can do? It shows exceedingly poor marketing skills to spend more than a year allowing others to whisper down the lane about a product that is not presentable, then show it to people who may not talk about it- then tell the world " 30 people have seen this ". Shit or get off the pot. ( Having just read T.J.'s post, I will leave my thoughts as they are although they are a bit matched to his. ) And as a last thought in this post, I will say this as plainly as possible. Eric, if you think for one moment that saying, and I quoted you directly up there, that Cinema Products was not a house filled with real innovation is not inflammatory and insulting in the extreme, then sir you are sorely mistaken. I am honest and proud of my loyalties- I'd never think to attack yours. How very sad that you feel compelled to attack mine. As for not having anything nice to say about non-CP/Tiffen rigs, you're mistaken. A well-engineered rig is a well-enginnered rig. The process and behaviors used to obtain the ideas USED in the construction of a well-engineered rig, well....that's a different discussion. Anybody can steal and anodize. Cinema Products, and Tiffen are houses of honest innovation. I personally feel you owe an apology for that remark, but that's my feeling and may not be shared. So be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members David Allen Grove Posted July 4, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 Not everyone was invited and that was done for a reason. So, what qualifications or associations did one need to see this device? I just felt a little left out is all. I'm sure everyone, especially the "non-chosen ones" can understand this. I guess it's a moot point.. howard said he would show me the AR when he's in town so.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Peter Abraham Posted July 4, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 Apparently, the accepted answer in this situation is a large NO. Well, not for nothing Eric, but in this country we all operate under the same freedom of speech. Yes, that means I am allowed to say " I want to see something before I believe it exists, not be told it may or may not exist ". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Peter Abraham Posted July 4, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 Just so we are all extremely clear here, I don't know Howard at all. My issue is with the way the supposed "secrecy" issues have been handled ( and, judging by David's last post, are still being handled ). None of my remarks are to be construed as a personal issue with Howard. Clear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guillermo nespolo Posted July 4, 2004 Report Share Posted July 4, 2004 i have to add to all this that we all gonna get to see the alien when howard thinks that is ready to show to all of us.... the main problem here tha some of us get to now about the rig and did not keep it to us only ...and the fact that howard shows the sled to a group of 30 people must have to be with the fact the hi need some feedback ... i dont realy think that howard its trying to do some advertising campaing or that his rig did not work ...the fact is that his has in his hands somthing a little more important right now ....hi have become a dad ...and that its more important than everything and time consuming also ... so to finish all this bla bla bla ...you shure all gonna get to see his new sled ..so be pacience and when wait until u put your hands on it to stars thaking...until then we have to wait ...and keep working....or better practicing...dont u think? :rolleyes: guillermo "back from the dead " nespolo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Peter Abraham Posted July 5, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Okay. It exists. Someone who signed a N.D.A. decided to Disclose anyway. Andyourpointis? My issue with the device is the gossipy way it has been handled for well over a year. Seems a bit unprofessional to tell folks in a public forum that they will just have to wait till a big trade show, where all questions will be answered. Then of course, not show it at the trade show. Aside from all of this, yes of course becoming a parent pretty much takes precedence over anything else- including haggling over equipment and whatnot. That is real life, and mazel tov to Howard and his wife. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members RonBaldwin Posted July 5, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 I was one of the lucky few that got to play with tha AR (and I do mean lucky, I had no idea how few actually got to see it in action -- looks like those compromising pictures I have of Eric and that goat...well, I'll save that story for his wedding). It is very cool (the AR, not the goat story). To say that there is a learning curve is the understatement of the year. It is DAMN hard to operate. I'm not talking about "normal" type operating in high or low mode -- that is easy (too easy!) -- I'm talking about going from one to the other, and being inbetween. Only with practice, practice, then a few more hours of practice will you be able to put it on his/her sled and pull off the shots everyone sees possible in their minds. This is by no means a slam to the device, but rather a complement to Lynn and his demo for the Alien he showed 2 years ago. Amazing footage -- like a steadicam, it will require some time invested to master. Once that time is invested, you will truly have abilities few in the world will have. Just a warning...don't just step onto a set with this thing, twirl it around and say "look what I can do...instant high to low mode!" Your worst fears will be realized as you'll be asked to actually do it...on a 75mm! Ron B ...and congrats to Howard and Kelly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members ChadPersons Posted July 5, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Dude...Peter, What's with all the bitchiness? So what that Eric didn't handle the release, rumors, demos, internet photos of the AR the way you think he should have. Eric is a good guy who I'm sure meant to offend no one and throwing darts at each other over the internet is certainly entertaining for the rest of us but come on... The AR exsists and it is very cool. I should get my AR in a month or so and if your in the LA area you are more than welcome to come by and try it. All the Best, Chad Persons Chad_Persons@yahoo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members ChadPersons Posted July 5, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Oh Eric, Sorry about "letting it slip". I didn't think there was anything wrong with saying that it was Revolutionary and that there is a lot of potential for it beyond going from hi to lo mode in shot. Oooppps... there I go again... Looking forward to it is all, Chad Persons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Michael Stumpf Posted July 5, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Chad, I wouldn't worry about that. Two years ago, many of us (myself included) flew Lynn's demo Alien after Cinegear, and there was a lot of discussion about it's ability then and the possibilities it gave us. You didn't "leak out" anything or say anything in that post that all of us didn't know or try already anyway. We discussed it in depth back in the 2001 and then 2002 Steadicam forums. Two years ago we were "swore to secrecy" too, but it was a secrecy of design not of the Alien's capabilities. I'm sure the same held true this time around as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costasflex Posted July 5, 2004 Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Hello.Alot of battles here. Ihavent seen any of what Iam gonna be describing,its just logik and mechanics. Since the AR will be a roll gradle perfectly balanced for the cameras CG, newtlal balance for the rig so its newtral in high and low mode,the operation is hard when you get from high to low mode.First you will have to deal with a circular move on the side, and that means that if you want to keep the cameras angle the same , you will either have to step iside the opposite way from high to middle and then get back from middle to low.Or do that moving the rig from the arm iside and back. The other thing will be to mix your rotation axis skills with that.for example when in high or low mode the pan control is pan and the tilt is tilt.But in the middle possition it is reversed, the pan is tilt and tilt is pan. and in the proccess of going from high to middle and then low these mixtures can be in the middle reversed middle and normal.So it can very well F..K up your brain signals to your hand operating and used the normal steadicam way.Also the 2 above effects must be operated together and fluently.Does it sound hard enough now?aMi wrong somewhere?we will see.I hope I havent blown any secrets hear its just logik and mechanices in 3D space.There s also a better way for the AR moves but it has serius camera limitations in size and weight.Thats why the second has been choosen I think.But one day very soon the cams will be so tiny....and then.... The coptervision doesnt work, in terms that if you place the rig in newtral balance, because the camera will not be balanced in its cg looking at the pictures I can tell so,it will affect the rigs balance when rolled or try to keep horizon. As I said in another post Iam working in a 3rd possibillity, that theoritically works. How ever if I deside to add roll in my motion camera I will be stepping into the ARs patents and thats not something I will never do.I have a lot of respect for this project and his mentores.My way will be very cool if it works though becaust it adds something more to it, like a small crane, move. But it will need scale too to operate and practice.We LL see how it goes.I have allready recieved a male from Eric saying how many patents I violate if I do this but thas a bit anfair for someone to say with out understanding and know how the project works, or do you Mr Fletcer seen any?The AR will defenatly change the way you operate but for the best I think, and any new device with a 3D logik and electronics will be different in operating.Just practice thats all.Howard and Lynn KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK,and saw as the AR as soon as possible.It has been taken a year so whats a few months left hey?Congrads for your baby Howard. Constantine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Michael Stumpf Posted July 5, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 Costantine, You are correct about the lateral move you need to make in order to go from high mode to low mode on the same axis (or vice versa). As you said, that's just logical with a post that's going to be around 2 feet and a rig with camera that'll be around 4 feet in length. It was a bit "weird" when I tried it with the prototype back in June 2002, and I don't think I ever did get it perfect in the 10 minutes I flew the Alien. But Lynn had it down, and that's part of the reason they say, "there's a learning curve." involved with it, and of course, that will put limitations on where you can make those type booms (no skinny hallways, or while going through a door, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members ChadPersons Posted July 5, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 I don't know about you guys but I feel like I am still learning intricacies to operate basic steadicam. This has become years of a learning curve. I really enjoy reading posts about strange shots that challange operators and how they execute them. The most boring day in the world has to be 10 hours of basic walk and talks. I'd rather work at Starbucks then go to work without being challenged. This is one of the reasons I bought the AR. Yes, a learning curve indeed... but don't worry too much about the "mind F**K" as one guy wrote in going from hi to lo mode. If you are thinking about pan is tilt and tilt is pan or any other combo while your operating just put it down. When I wore the AR I never thought about how it worked. I really don't care(no offense). I watched the monitor like I was at home watching TV except I controlled the image. There was for me at least a dream-like feel to it. I got to release mechanics that use to limit what I could do and let my imagination take over. The AR took care of the mechanics and THAT is the best part for me. Now the biggest challenge might be what shot you can think up? Chad Persons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Howard J Smith Posted July 5, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted July 5, 2004 .......now that's what I am talking about! :D thank you Chad for being a pioneer! Howard J Smith MK-V Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.