Premium Members Robert Eder Posted December 6, 2005 Premium Members Report Share Posted December 6, 2005 i am a noob, so i hope this maybe totally stupid question is allowed. "The Steadicam arm lift the most of the weight and you help to lift the rest up to the desired headroom position to avoid the "step" effect in the frame. " does that mean that it is better to trim the arm -10° from horizontal position and lift it up to horizontal to avoid bumping? i also read something that says it is better to loosen the springs in a 3a type arm to get in smoother. i thought springs work more constant if they are under a certain pre tension? i use a baerbel arm which works with compression springs, what do the pro or baerbel users think of pretension in their arms? thanks for answers! greetings, robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanMcMillan Posted December 16, 2005 Report Share Posted December 16, 2005 Michael, Think of your gimbal hand as a second lens. No matter what arm you have its that slight adjustment with the gimbal hand that makes the shot. Your feet and body shouldn't come into it. You position the rig with that hand. That's why we walk normaly with the rig close and through doorways ( and church pews ) with it way out in front. there's no room for us to be next to the rig. But the camera has to in the right place, and you do that with the gimbal hand. Do a couple of days on a boat and you'll see that hand automatically adjust for the boat's movement as well as yours. All the best Macca Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Binder Posted September 15, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2006 i found this topic i started a long time ago. i just wanted to thank you all for your answers!!! On this sunday i do my 5th "church-live-show" (maybee i will get holy this way :lol: ) first time on 16:9 with an Ikegami HK-399 and wireless. thanks again all for your help! you are very great. greets michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Nestor Salazar Posted December 5, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 i found this topic i started a long time ago. i just wanted to thank you all for your answers!!! On this sunday i do my 5th "church-live-show" (maybee i will get holy this way :lol: ) first time on 16:9 with an Ikegami HK-399 and wireless. thanks again all for your help! you are very great. greets michael Hello everybody I have a couple of question about a thing that I have notice. I have read for about 2 hours on he forum looking for answers. Find a couple. But I still wanna ask. I did a shot like walking the line. The shot was filmed in a church. The shot was a 60 m fast walk, up 2 steps, stopping in a lock off mid shot of a couple getting married with the priest in the middle.. The lock of went really well. The big problem was the walk to the altar. The start was oki but in the middle of the walk I saw that the rigg was moving left to wright. And since I had to to frame the couple 60 m infront of me it became really hard to keep the rigg still. It felt like the cross in the frame was all over the. What should I look att in my monitor. The cross or the horizont.?? I tested different options. - Like letting the tension of the arm - Making the rigg moore bottom heavy But with the same result.. I have a pain about 10 cm under my hip bone. Like I puted to much tension on that side. Does It have to do with my walk maybe.? I dont walk totally straight ahead. Moore the opposite way. I now I have a lot of question. Hope you can reply a few. Greeting from a newbee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members RobVanGelder Posted December 5, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 Hi nestor, It sounds like your vest and arm adjustment is not correct, when you walk in a straight line, your body should be straight too. Try this in front of a big mirror or let other people judge your posture. When you have to curve your spine to balance or walk like a crab ((more or less sideways, on the sides of your feet) something is not well adjusted. That can be the reason for the one-sided pain. Not with all arms and vest you have enough adjustment possibilities, to be honest. Specially the more simple rigs/systems don't have all the options you want. And sometimes people discover that when they change sides , from regular to goofy or visa versa, it becomes much more manageble. I saw this happen a few times in a workshop. Other than that, try to loosen the grip on the gimbal. Specially with longer shots, you tend to tighten the grip because the fatique kicks in or you anticipate on certain corners or steps. This can often lead to rolling horizon. A properly balanced rig will keep its position fairly well, the movements you see are mostly man-made. Loosening the arm tension will drop the rig down, most of the time you tend to grab more firmly then to get the right height again. This is bad. More bottom heavy can work, but remember that the moment it goes off-level, it tends to swing more and it takes more effort to stop it too. Thats why many operators prefer near balance or fully equal balance. (more than 4-8 seconds drop-down) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Nestor Salazar Posted December 5, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 Hi nestor, It sounds like your vest and arm adjustment is not correct, when you walk in a straight line, your body should be straight too. Try this in front of a big mirror or let other people judge your posture. When you have to curve your spine to balance or walk like a crab ((more or less sideways, on the sides of your feet) something is not well adjusted. That can be the reason for the one-sided pain. Not with all arms and vest you have enough adjustment possibilities, to be honest. Specially the more simple rigs/systems don't have all the options you want. And sometimes people discover that when they change sides , from regular to goofy or visa versa, it becomes much more manageble. I saw this happen a few times in a workshop. Other than that, try to loosen the grip on the gimbal. Specially with longer shots, you tend to tighten the grip because the fatique kicks in or you anticipate on certain corners or steps. This can often lead to rolling horizon. A properly balanced rig will keep its position fairly well, the movements you see are mostly man-made. Loosening the arm tension will drop the rig down, most of the time you tend to grab more firmly then to get the right height again. This is bad. More bottom heavy can work, but remember that the moment it goes off-level, it tends to swing more and it takes more effort to stop it too. Thats why many operators prefer near balance or fully equal balance. (more than 4-8 seconds drop-down) Thanx for the reply Rob Am gonna take a closer look at those things. Actually the rigg didnt fell misplaced. I can let go of it and it just fly infront of me. But my walk is something that I really have to look into. Actually GOOFY was another thing that I was wondering about.?? How can you be sure that you are regular or goofy.? I have doing it regular since the workshop. Beacuse they said that the left hand was moore gentle to the post. While the right strong hand booms up. My girlfriend did a test with me pointing out what foot I often use. She was behind me, suddenly she pushed me forward to see what foot I reacted with. The Left. And also when I move around I tend to start with the left. When I play hockey am goofy, also when I snowboard am goofy. Should I be goofy when I do steadicam to.???? Greetings from Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Burton Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 How can you be sure that you are regular or goofy.? I have doing it regular since the workshop. Beacuse they said that the left hand was moore gentle to the post. While the right strong hand booms up. My girlfriend did a test with me pointing out what foot I often use. She was behind me, suddenly she pushed me forward to see what foot I reacted with. The Left. And also when I move around I tend to start with the left. When I play hockey am goofy, also when I snowboard am goofy. Should I be goofy when I do steadicam to.???? Your instructor was WRONG ! The only way to be sure if your regular or goofy is to try both ways and see whitch one works best for you. It's just like being right or left handed and should have the same effect. I'm right handed and use my right hand to operate the gimbol (where the most delecate and precise input is needed). The problem is your not just using your hand, your also using your feet, if you skatebaord/snowboard/surf goofy then your right foot leads naturally. This however isnt the same for a steadicam stance as your travelling forwards rarther than sideways. As I operate with my right hand on the gimbol, this leads the sled to be on my right side and thus in a ready possition my left leg leads with my hips and shoulders facing towards the sled. When I begin my walk forwards my right legs comes forwards but I keep my foot pointing to the right (with the left foot pointing straight on). Walk like a ninja ! :ph34r: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Eric Fletcher S.O.C. Posted December 5, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 Your instructor was WRONG ! No actually the instructor is correct Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members JobScholtze Posted December 5, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 Your instructor was WRONG ! No actually the instructor is correct LOL, Sure, we all have to operate like eric :P Its what suits you best. And wich hand controls the gimbal best. I am right handed too and operate goofy. Never had a problem with that. Regular didnt feel right to me. Also when shooting video, its easy to check the vieuwer for diafragma, and its easy to see your tc and to be sure its running. But its up to you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Burton Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 Your instructor was WRONG ! No actually the instructor is correct Rubbish !!!!!! Thats like saying to a right handed person "write with your left hand, it just takes practice". Aslo how much effort does it take to boom on a modern arm ? Hardly any thats how much ! When you learned to ride a bike did you learn to ride backwards first ? Anybody surf/skate/board or even write and learned switch first ? I think not. Why teach something thats plainly wrong ? Madness........................ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Eric Fletcher S.O.C. Posted December 6, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 Your instructor was WRONG ! No actually the instructor is correct Rubbish !!!!!! Thats like saying to a right handed person "write with your left hand, it just takes practice". Aslo how much effort does it take to boom on a modern arm ? Hardly any thats how much ! When you learned to ride a bike did you learn to ride backwards first ? Anybody surf/skate/board or even write and learned switch first ? I think not. Why teach something thats plainly wrong ? Madness........................ Actually it's eaiser to teach your non dominate hand fine control. I don't know about you but I've been doing this since 1980 and taught by the likes of Garrett and Ted. It works for me and most others I know and it's what I teach. I also teach and coach Auto racing another discipline that requires fine control and teach of something that is a "Feeling". Bottom line is that it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Charles Papert Posted December 6, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 I thought about this issue once while conventional operating (probably bored in the middle of a shot, no doubt)--the geared head requires the same level of finesse from both hands at once to be able to execute the desired move. I may be right handed but this doesn't mean I'm more adept at panning than tilting with that piece of gear! I believe strongly that after trying it both ways, new operators find a preference in one way or another and it has much to do with the body mechanics and what makes "sense" to an individual, more than the hand control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Nestor Salazar Posted December 6, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 Well everybody. Now I now moore. I havent tried goofy since the workshop. Well they didnt exactly tell us that we HAD to have the steadicam regular. But they teached that way. By the way the teacher was Jerry Holway. Well am gonna try it and see how it feels. Thanx again everybody for your detaild information. Nice to have big brothers. :blink: Greetings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Jerry Holway Posted December 6, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 Oh, boy, now I'm in it. I always say we tend to teach the way we do (camera on the left) because that's how we were taught in the days when it was tough to flip to goofy and back... Regardless, one possible reason for right handed folks to operate "normally" (and lefties to go goofy) is that it's the "dominant" hand that is best at sensing where it is in space (as babies we learned eye-hand coordination grabbing with the dominant hand). All that really matters is that the operator is happy with the side onehe/she normally operates on, and eye dominance and foot dominance all play a part. Although right handed, I''m left eye dominant, and I was a left-handed pole vaulter way back when, who knows why? I should also state that at the workshops we teach, we force the students to practice dances and shots both ways, for two reasons. First and foremost is to find the side you like best. Secondly, once in a while it's much, much easier to operate on that other side for some shots - if you are comfortable with it, i.e., trained to do it and you practice. As I am forced to practice going goofy at least once a workshop, I'm fairly confident with my skills, so I would probably consider it an option and flip sooner than most. Ambivadextrously yours, Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Burton Posted December 7, 2006 Report Share Posted December 7, 2006 Nothing wrong with teaching both ways ;) I'm terrible operating regular but when I go back to goofy after some time struggling it feels like I have advanced greatly. Strangly I have found in Don Juan I operate better with the rig switched to regular, something about looking over my left side i find better. Eric, Perhaps as we in the UK drive with our left hand changing gear and our right hand on the wheel, that this is reversed in the US and your more used to doing things backwards :P -matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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