Premium Members Lars Erik Posted December 21, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 Hey Erwin, of course the Archer can't fly a 535 or a fully loaded 435, but I encounter jobs with the Arri Lite. Sometimes also a 235. I've had the Archer rig maxing out at 18,5 kiloes. So it can take quite a little load. And yes, one must ask oneself what kind of jobs one is looking at. But investing in FF, Antlers, wirless video, countless monitors, cables and the list goes on and on...AND investing in a 24v first time rig can be a bit too much for some. So I decided to buy the Archer after testing it. Because I also wanted to invest in a full rig with all the above mentioned items, which I have done in just one year. I didn't expect to get offers of 35mm jobs so quickly, but they've come, so now I have to prepare for that. But the jobs on 35mm in Norway isn't that often, so investing in a new/used 24v rig now, is just too early. I'm guessing in 3-5 years I'll probably sell the Archer (or keep it if I can afford to), and get a 24v used rig like a Ultra or something. In the US I'm guessing that if you do 35mm jobs, they expect you to show up with a 35mm rig like a PRO, MK-V or a Ultra. But then you have budgets we in Norway never will be able to come close to having. Remember that a BIG movie in Norway, has a budget of about $ 3 million. That's including marketing! So it takes us longer to be able to make the amount of money you're making. And then there's the fact that there isn't that many jobs around for ops. And I believe when you also say that the Clipper II is under video, that's probably because Tiffen don't want the cheaper rigs to compete at the same market as the most expensive ones. Of course one can't compare a Clipper or God forbid a Archer to a Ultra, but that doesn't say they can't fly some 35mm cams... Personally I like the Archer, because you can use it for fiction or documentary. I've been doing some documentary stuff with it. That wouldn't have been possible with a Ultra, it's just too damn heavy to have on for a whole day shooting docs. But it can be done with a Archer. So in that sense both the Archer and a original 24v rig have both limitations I guess. LE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Jerry Holway Posted December 21, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 A small bit of info that might be helpful- The Clipper, Clipper two, and Vector are all variations of the Ultra... you can read the literature to find out exactly which features each has/does not have vis a vis the Ultra. The Clipper 24 even has some features of the Ultra2 (clamps, monitor mount). All these rigs work with film or video cameras, and all can carry any weight camera we typically use, including the Genesis, BL-IV, and the like. The weight limits in the specs are for the systems, and the upper weight limit is set by the arm, not the sled. Get a "big" arm, and you are good to go. No problems. Even the Archer sled can handle a lot more weight than the specifications. With the Archer, the upper weight limit is set by two factors: you need to add extra weight (via a custom mount) to the base and you need a big arm to do the lifting. That's why there are some 24volt versions for those that want to fly 24volt film cameras... Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Lars Erik Posted December 21, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 Ok Jerry, thanks for clearing that up. LE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Jaron Berman Posted December 26, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted December 26, 2006 I've been doing all the financing math to try and get a new rig, and I'm stuck deciding whether to go with a 12v system and convert to 24, or just get the 24 off the bat. In my research, Instead of trying to go 12 - 24, I found a dc-dc buck converter that does the 24-12 thing, and gives 100 watts of power at 12-15v. It's adjustable, so you can set the output to 14.4v even as the batteries run down. With one of those hot-swaps run in series, and this dc-dc to run the 12v items, it appears to be a pretty viable 24v option. http://www.mouser.com/search/ProductDetail...ey618-VTD15SC24 It says there's a 15v output, but it's variable +- 10%. Input from 19-30v. Not the smallest box in the world, (3"x7.5"x1.8") but it does put out a lot of power. Who knows, this may be useful to someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Erwin Landau Posted December 26, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted December 26, 2006 Jaron, Not to rain on your parade... This piece of equipment is redundant... A 24 Volt system gives you ALWAYS 12 volt as well (as the 24 volts are created with two 12 Volt batteries, even as seen on the new Ultra2, on the old Ultra they had an internal down converter for 12 volt). The only difference between a 12 and a 24 Volt system is that you also can power a (24 Volt requiring) Film Camera... Cheers, Erwin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Charles Papert Posted December 27, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Indeed Jaron, you'll find more than a few folk around here who struggled with 12-24 volt converters over the years and thus retreat hissing and spitting at their very mention. No doubt the tech has improved in recent times but the stigma is still there. I was "removed" from a job many years ago thanks to my converter not being able to keep up in the cold and thus the camera kept losing speed; even though we went to a belt battery pretty quickly, the DP was spooked and out I went. Bought a 24v rig shortly thereafter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Jaron Berman Posted December 27, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted December 27, 2006 Definitely, the archer isn't a 24v rig. I actually posted this particular item because it was a voltage down-converter (like the xcs, etc). My suggestion was to run a 24v line straight from 2 batteries (in series) to the stage, and power everything else on the sled off the dc-dc at 14.4. At 100 watts, that converter (theoretically) gives 6.9 amps at 14.4v, which should power a pretty good amount of gear. I know a bunch of people have tried boosting 14.4 to 28.8, which sounds like a crap shoot to me. However, going the other way, with a dc-dc buck converter, and allowing the camera to run 24v off the batteries more or less directly, and powering the sled's stock wiring off the converter sounded less likely to cause problems. Either way, I have ruled out a 12v sled for myself, because in the end, it'll probably cost as much to install a power supply as to buy a rig with a pre-integrated system. But, for those people (who probably started this particular thread), I figured I'd share that finding. Maybe it'll help someone. I agree though, going 12-24 sounds like a bad idea, as the 24v load is likely to be pretty substantial.... far more than a typical (non-genesis) 14.4v load. Oh, and if anyone knows someone trying to offload a clipper 24 or similar rig (in U.S. dollars), I'm interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Lars Erik Posted December 28, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted December 28, 2006 Jaron, on steadicam.com on used and demo section, there's a Clipper 24 for sale w/ G-50 arm. No vest though. LE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Lars Erik Posted January 18, 2007 Premium Members Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 Done. Hofmann of Sweden upgraded my rig to 24v. New battery attached to rods just under the post. 12v/24v option by button on the new battery plate. LE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Charles King Posted January 18, 2007 Premium Members Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 Done. Hofmann of Sweden upgraded my rig to 24v. New battery attached to rods just under the post. 12v/24v option by button on the new battery plate. LE ...and may I ask how did that cost you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members chris fawcett Posted January 18, 2007 Premium Members Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 Done. Hofmann of Sweden upgraded my rig to 24v. New battery attached to rods just under the post. 12v/24v option by button on the new battery plate. Can't wait to see the pics, L-E. Glad you are such an innovator, it saves lazy peaple like me having to think too much! All the best, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Lars Erik Posted January 18, 2007 Premium Members Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 Hey Charles, wasn't too bad. About 6000 NOK. Which is about 500 Euro. Hey Chris, happy new year. How is everything? You back in Amsterdam and started working yet? The documentary feature I was talking about is coming along. So we might be able to work together at the end of 2007 or beginning of 2008. Have to be honest about the upgrade, I only pushed Michael Hofmann on it and told him I wanted the extra battery under the post. He and his great technicians did the rest. Will post pictures by the weekend. A fellow Archer owner in Sweden has had the same upgrade and tested it with the 435, and it worked fine he said. They changed my gimbal, Tiffen said that some of the first Archer's had a faulty gimbal. LE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Charles King Posted January 18, 2007 Premium Members Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 Thanks Lars. That's about 4500 kr. Not bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members chris fawcett Posted January 19, 2007 Premium Members Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 Hi Lars Erik, I'm back and away again! It's another busy year, by the looks of it. That's great news about the doc. I look forward to working on it with you. So, your rig is where you want it to be now? Or do you have another mod up your sleeve? Can't wait to see the pics. All the best for 2007, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Lars Erik Posted January 19, 2007 Premium Members Report Share Posted January 19, 2007 Hey Chris, good to hear you're back in business and running around with your rig. I've got lots of shoots myself. Just got a documentary series. 10 days of steadicam. Grrrrreat! Here are the pics. Quite simple. The extra battery is mounted under the post as I said. This extra battery plate has a on/off switch. Wires go up the post and into the top-stage. The top-stage is wired for 24v, so the tech said it was real easy to do. LE LE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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