Klassen cloned in China!

[Janice Arthur]

Guys;

 

One point no one has brought up is governmental tariffs. Many countries have extraordinary tariffs in place when you import gear like this.

 

One example, 5 years ago a guy from South Africa said it was a 100% tariff on this gear so a $50k Steadicam becomes $100k. (maybe its changed now but I doubt it)

 

This is on top of an economy that will never let you make the make back.

 

So yes, it does happen, for all the reasons you listed, but even just one more.

 

Janice

[Charles Papert]

This is on top of an economy that will never let you make the make back.

 

Since Janice has always demonstrated top-notch grammar, this poorly translated sentence leads me to believe that she herself has been replaced with a cheap Chinese knock-off.

 

Keep a sharp eye out guys, you may be next. You never know when make it nicely so OK.

 

uh-oh...

[Janice Arthur]

This is on top of an economy that will never let you make the make back.

 

Since Janice has always demonstrated top-notch grammar, this poorly translated sentence leads me to believe that she herself has been replaced with a cheap Chinese knock-off.

 

Keep a sharp eye out guys, you may be next. You never know when make it nicely so OK.

 

uh-oh...

 

Charles;

 

I am caught; I usually proof my posts to prevent laughter.

 

Substitute the last "make" in my sentence with "money" and the meaning returns . . . ah . . .

 

(It was very early on a Sunday, is my excuse.)

 

Janice

[Charles Papert]

Always laughter with, never at, Janice!!

 

Actually, the idea of sending in a knock-off to shlep the rig around while I lounge around at home is increasingly attractive. I didn't notice if Movcam has an "operator" tab on their website (if so, I'd pitch them on a couple of improvements for my doppleganger; a few inches taller and more chiseled features wouldn't hurt)

 

Speaking of more of the same, I was asked to review this rig (www.fishboneusa.com) for a DV site. It's...not so good.

 

They just keep coming.

[mattmarek]

i didnt notice any pricing on the site. wonder how it compares to the uk and american made rigs that are accepted as an industry standard.

 

cant say i blame them. the chinese film market is a big one. and those looking to get a rig are probably (as janice pointed out) faced with HUGE taxes in getting an american made rig. this is a way for an operator over there to get into the biz. companies like adobe offer 'poorer' countries discounts on software. this is hardly something that tiffen could do. so what other options are there?

 

knock offs are seen in every country, including the usa.

[Mark Karavite]

The Chinese will copy anything, but it's obvious they fall short on many unique features that Walter has on his harness:

 

- drop down arm

- Duo harness

- solid hinged or double clasped front door

- contoured bottom of front door (for relief on front of hips)

- sweet craftsmanship

- awesome service and the coolest shop in North America

 

Walter is an innovator, and an inventor. I think "you get what you pay for" definately applies here.

 

Mark Karavite

A Camera / Steadicam Operator

mkaravite@comcast.net

[Erik Brul]

On the website there is some footage which seems to be the MOVCAM rig(s)..

 

 

Erik

[Brant S. Fagan SOC]

Ladies and Gents--

 

I think I see a pattern here. To "borrow" from the MOVCAM site, (novel concept given the thread here), I can see the root of the problem.

 

"Pro-s 3A incorporates world top designing theory and technological achievements. It utilizes modular design."

 

Yes, they have managed to take from others, claim superiority, and make it sound like an honest product.

 

Phooey! Just look at the composition of the photographs on the site! Note the operator's form and hand grip.

 

My own ACME Gimbal took huge amounts of time, money, engineering, blood, sweat, and sleepless nights. But we prevailed and they are awesome. When I developed the VLS, I spent more than a year noodling with concepts and ideas. I would wager that reverse engineering these products may have taken as long to get right. But with little honest reward.

 

Just how much joy could they reap from this kind of process?

 

In my book, joy does NOT equal cash.

 

I wonder how they feel looking in the mirror each morning?

 

Must be a different way of life over there.

 

Best,

 

Brant S. Fagan, SOC

Steadicam®/Camera Operator

[RobVanGelder]

In their book: Cash IS Joy !!!!

 

This is the case in many Asian countries, Thailand, where i am working now, included.

 

People here are willing to work with "good enough" and steal jobs from each other by undercutting tremendously.

They take lower quality for granted and work with it until it breaks down, then buy new again, but the same low quality of course!

 

Because while working, they have hardly made enough money to buy anything better and personally I think they don't really want or care for anything better.

 

Though I still do work for mostly foreign productions here, I am very happy I have a regular job (Head of Maintenance, International Contacts) in the rental company I work for.

 

It has been impossible to compete with the locals, they can and will always go lower then I can as a foreigner.

This is clearly visible in their equipment, which is very basic, often incomplete and when it breaks down it is very crudely "fixed".

Luckily I own my equipment, without any debts or banks breathing in my neck. That's how i can survive, accepting only "reasonable" offers, that are probably in your eyes (USA/Europe) already very low, but the maximum possible here.

 

I am all for higher rates that can maintain the equipment AND maintain a reasonable living, but in these countries, which are just emerging from the agricultural past, and with the enormous amount of workforce (=for cheap) there is little choice.

 

That's why companies like Movcam can do business.

 

Unfortunally! :angry:

[Matt Mouraud]

While Katie Holmes seems to be enjoying herself, this vest sells for $4500... I don't know about the rest though but while in China I've seen some of their high end knock offs and it was pretty impressive. Of course the absolute lack of customer care and service makes up for it but still....

It's just sad that they cannot do anything else than copying and cashing on those who spent years and countless money on R&D. and it's particularly sad when it touches small companies with a such a small market as Steadicam...

Edited May 15, 2007 by Matt Mouraud

[Erwin Landau]

Katie's gone... sorry guys.

 

I was talking with a couple of guys that tried the knock-off's... and there findings were, that they look like the real deal but don't fill nor perform anywhere close to the real thing...

 

As always in our business you get what you pay for... period.

 

 

Erwin

[JobScholtze]

Go figure, 4500 dollar for a clone, thats serieus money if you ask me. I wouldnt take that change, much to risky.

 

Job " My klassen is on its way "

[Matt Mouraud]

Yeah, it's kinda like buying a knock-off Breitling for $2000, doesn't make much sense, does it ?

Too bad the back mounted vest doesn't fit me (I'm too skinny, I think). I would love to have a Klassen or a DSD...

[JensSchroeder]

>>Too bad the back mounted vest doesn't fit me (I'm too skinny, I think). <<

 

Hi Matt,

 

I just can tell you that Walter will definitely be able to adjust the vest proportions for your needs. Actually I have a kind of unusual hip size as mine is just straight and not as usual like a trapezium but we altered the vest proportions a little and now I don't want to do the job without my back mount vest.

 

Good luck,

 

Jens

[TJ Williams]

For years film workers have watched runaway production first to Canada now to Eastern Europe and all over the third world.

Now it is coming to our local equipment suppliers. Yes this is a cheap stupid knock off, yes the guy walking forward thru the trade show, while breathing up n down and loosing his horizon on every turn is pretty horrible.

 

There are cheap knockoffs of earlier Steadicams (where the patent is expired) from several continents. Lets not be so xenophobic as to label the Chinese people as un-original from this early example. Chinese companies build part of the Boeing airplanes you ride around on. Chinese engineers are educated in the best engineering schools in the US and Europe.

They are starting to have their own schools that draw overseas students. Over 15 years ago when I first went to China every one was wearing Mao jackets and things were pretty backward. This year the number of mainland Chinese who live a first world life style passed the total populations of Germany and France.

 

After the WW2 the Japanese made cheap knockoffs of just about everything: Now Sony, Honda, Toyota, Panasonic, etc etc

are you gonna tell me about how GM HP are the innovators in these markets?

 

I suspect these current Chinese pieces will sell predominantly in China, but yes eventually they will come here and the suppliers of film/video/steadicam/etcetc will all have to compete with them. Don't imagine that the products will be worse than Sony or Panasonic and don't imagine that the service will be worse than those Japanese companies.