Anthony Hardwick Posted April 23, 2004 Report Share Posted April 23, 2004 Benjamin, I do (and did) understand that they are the same diameter, and of course I know that it is not in addition to the regular bolt/pin. However, the Pro arm bolt is set up with a series of washers (if I recall correctly) and the spacing tolerances at the top and bottom of the bolt (or pin if you prefer) seemed to be tighter and have less vertical play than on a MS Iso-Elastic arm with the A/C pin. Again, this is from memory with regard to the Pro Arm, as I have not gotten mine yet. Hopefully soon though :) Maybe that extra play in the vertical axis doesn't make any difference, but it seemed like it would to me. This is all academic at the moment for me since I have never actually tried it. I'll have to try it when I get my Pro Arm, and see. Have you (or anyone else here) actually done a side by side comparison of a Pro arm with an A/C pin vs. a Pro arm with the stock bolt & washer assembly with the intention of looking for possible additional flex? It might be a subtle but noticeable difference. Just curious. Thanks, Anthony "I only appear to be an idiot" Hardwick ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Stephen Murphy Posted April 23, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted April 23, 2004 I had the socket block(female) on my Jerry Hill Garfield shear in two last year. It was sitting in my Pelican case, well protected. Had only been used twice. Took it out to practice (i had an intensive vehicle mount job coming up) and the socket block litterally slid apart in my hands. Thank God Jerry was able to ship a replacement in time for the gig. I guess we all have to accept that our gear will fail at one time or another, irrespective of what make or model it is. Thats what insurance is for right?:) (Putting a brave face on things). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Erwin Landau Posted April 23, 2004 Author Premium Members Report Share Posted April 23, 2004 Hi Rob, I don't have issues with the PRO Gear Arm, I just have issues with people that take an idea and then are trying to sell it as there own... But let's leave that on the side for now... I never reach the physical limit of the Arm (Buttoming out)... Firstly, I slittly over crank the Arm and I support the rig with my Operating (Left) Hand by leaning onto the Speed rail, which results in nice bruses on my forarms... Also the Camera that I was flying was everything but heavy... Canon XL-1 with a 15 pound weight plate to make it more stable for the ride... Alec, The standard Garfield is not really a solution... just another bandade. The issues that we are confronted is that either the manufacturer of the Male (Arm) Socket or the Manufacturer of the Vest and his Female Socket is blamed for the failure. Or they blame each other.... So yes, todays work is in no way what the guys at CP had in mind or would have expected, when they designed the Socket Block 30 years ago... Everything has evolved every single part that we use today got redesigned and improved... even the Camera plates... exept for the Socket Block. Erwin "What is my point?" Landau, SOC www.landaucamera.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Lawrence Karman Posted April 23, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted April 23, 2004 I've had the male socket block on my PRO arm split in 2 while on a vehicle mount. Very messy result. Quick repairs from PRO. There's a little hole in the block where the spring end seats and that is where it snapped. Never had any problem with the other end (Derose). I tape the top screw on th DSD vest socket block so it doesn't rotate and loosen the lower screw to get in and out. I also can't say that having to flip the socket block for vehicle mounts is really that time consuming. There's plenty of other things taking more time on the set to allow for it, so adding the expense and weight of an aircraft pin is not necessary for me. One could probably purchase one from McMaster-Carr for a lot less than Tiffen charges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Eric Fletcher S.O.C. Posted April 24, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted April 24, 2004 Anthony,the original PRO bolt has the same diameter as the aircraft pin. You?re not adding an extra connection, you use the one already existing. I didn?t experience any additional flexing in the arm. Give it a try, it is only about 140 USD from Tiffen. Benjamin You have got to be kidding me. I can get those pins for $35.00 any time. If your Paying $140 then your a sucker and I have a bridge for you to buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Erwin Landau Posted April 24, 2004 Author Premium Members Report Share Posted April 24, 2004 To get back on topic... Is the DSD/Klassen Vest Socket Block to blame for the deformation of the Arm Socket block or not... All Back Harness owner... How does your Arm Socket Block look like? Erwin "Answer my Questions, darn it" Landau, SOC www.landaucamera.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Benjamin Treplin Posted April 24, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted April 24, 2004 Erwin, Sorry for interrupting again. Mr. Fletscher, Thank you for your kind words, I really appreciate it. 35 bugs? Good for you. Start a shop. I live in Europe and it is only a little bit difficult to get that special pin in 2 days. The PRO arm doesn?t has washers in the socket block joint, they are only located in the ellbow. Benjamin ?call me smart ass? Treplin Erwin, it?s yours again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Hardwick Posted April 24, 2004 Report Share Posted April 24, 2004 The PRO arm doesn?t has washers in the socket block joint, they are only located in the ellbow. That's what happens when you try to rely on memory. I stand corrected, but I did at least say "(If I recall correctly)." AHA! I just looked at your picture again, Benjamin, and I see where my mistake was. I was remembering the hinge or pivot point directly connected to the titanium socket block part, not the aluminum piece attached to that. That's the part with washers (at least t looks that way) that I was thinking of. In any case, I'm still curious about the flex question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Rich Cottrell Posted April 24, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted April 24, 2004 Benjamin, i talked with Marcel at Pro about getting a pin like this. He swayed me away because Pro would not write off on it... so "it could void my warrenty"... he wrote: "If the arm were to fail in this area, it might be determined that the modification was the cause of the failure" Any advice here, because i would like to put one of these pins in my Pro arm. It seems like an obvious thing to have, and these pins are available even cheeper from McMaster-Carr. (I never knew the correct size to get though, so i have yet to buy one.) I still do not understand why GPI does not offer these pins, nor have they done tests with these pins to determine if flex is an issue or not. rich Benjamin, when you get a chance could you measure that pin of yours for me... thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Alec Jarnagin SOC Posted April 24, 2004 Moderators Report Share Posted April 24, 2004 Erwin, I was saying that switching back to the set-up as originally conceived (as on traditional Garfield mounts/front vest) may be the trick. You might view this as a bandage (and I'm aware it takes a bit longer with a PRO arm, but I can't imagine anyone ever waiting on you when one considers all the rest of the BS that goes on switching to a hard mount). Losing 25+ years of compatibility on an industry standard item is not something one does lightly, in my opinion. As for all these other problems people seem to have had with the more traditional Garfield mounts, I'm a little shocked. I've been bounced around on ATVs flying over cobble stone bricks, on and off New York side walks to proceeding running horses in the woods hard mounted to pickup trucks. Come to think of it, the vast majority of vehicle mount work I've done (at least the hard core stuff), I was still using a 3a arm with an aircraft aluminum male socket block. My Garfield mount has the steel receiver. Maybe this is a very good thing. Wait a sec... Yes, I just found this on the PRO web site under accessories: "Hardened Steel Arm Socket Block (Vehicle Mount or Suit/Vest)" "Titanium Arm Socket Block (Suit/Vest only)" "Hardened Aluminium Socket Block (Suit/Vest only)" Titanium is strong, yet brittle. Maybe the original aircraft aluminum male socket blocks should still be used on the arm as well as the hardened steel female for hard mounts? It would take no longer to change out than flipping it over and you'd have a back up to (since I've seen the i-bolts snap on these pieces anyway, putting your arm out of order regardless of what kind of arm you fly). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Eric Fletcher S.O.C. Posted April 24, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted April 24, 2004 Erwin,Sorry for interrupting again. Mr. Fletscher, Thank you for your kind words, I really appreciate it. 35 bugs? Good for you. Start a shop. I live in Europe and it is only a little bit difficult to get that special pin in 2 days. The PRO arm doesn?t has washers in the socket block joint, they are only located in the ellbow. Benjamin ?call me smart ass? Treplin Erwin, it?s yours again. You can get those pins in Europe for $35 also. I have a pro arm so I know what it needs BTW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Eric Fletcher S.O.C. Posted April 24, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted April 24, 2004 Benjamin,i talked with Marcel at Pro about getting a pin like this. He swayed me away because Pro would not write off on it... so "it could void my warrenty"... he wrote: "If the arm were to fail in this area, it might be determined that the modification was the cause of the failure" Any advice here, because i would like to put one of these pins in my Pro arm. It seems like an obvious thing to have, and these pins are available even cheeper from McMaster-Carr. (I never knew the correct size to get though, so i have yet to buy one.) I still do not understand why GPI does not offer these pins, nor have they done tests with these pins to determine if flex is an issue or not. rich Benjamin, when you get a chance could you measure that pin of yours for me... thanks Those pins are hollow and do not have the same strength as the Original part Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Benjamin Treplin Posted April 24, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted April 24, 2004 Rich, it is a 3/8 diameter and 3.5 inches long. It's call "M" deluxe style 6M3.50 made by Avibank. Benjamin P.S. Eric I?d love to know where I can get those pins in Europe for $35. Let me know. Here is the link with all specifications including maximum load: http://www.avibank.com/products/product_di...?product_id=120 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Michael Stumpf Posted April 25, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted April 25, 2004 I tape the top screw on th DSD vest socket block so it doesn't rotate and loosen the lower screw to get in and out. As do I after experiencing the top screw on many occasions work it's way loose during shots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members WillArnot Posted April 25, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted April 25, 2004 Pro Arm, Klassen vest 5 weeks old. Never had an issue with the thumb screws loosening up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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