Moderators Alec Jarnagin SOC Posted June 21, 2004 Moderators Report Share Posted June 21, 2004 Eric, "Having held it on Steadicam mode with it's recoder but no lo-mode bracket it's the same weight as a straight Millenium maybe a touch lighter." I don't suppose you mean the Millenium XL by chance (keeping fingers crossed)? Oops, just say the word "Straight" tucked in there. Oh well. Not the end of the world. Thanks for the help the other day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members iankerr Posted June 22, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted June 22, 2004 An engineer acquaintance of mine who's seen the camera estimated that between the camera and deck the system would be drawing over 20 AMPs... Good Times! IK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Kelsey W. Smith Posted May 26, 2005 Premium Members Report Share Posted May 26, 2005 Has anyone flown Panavision's Genesis HD camera?? I've heard it's a pig! 50+lbs. I have a potential shoot coming up with lots of Steadicam and would like to know what I'm getting myself into! Thanks Kelsey W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Howard J Smith Posted May 26, 2005 Premium Members Report Share Posted May 26, 2005 Hi Kelsey The Genesis body weighs almost the same as the PV XL body - it is the tape back that is the main weight. You do not need to use this on the steadicam. I had the Genesis in the AR and it is very useable. Just use the recorder OFF the system and you should be fine (you can use 2 BNC for the data) - and the camera is 12v and the outputs (accessories are 24v) You will also need a down converter at the moment as well. I hope this is of some help. All the best Howard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members James Puli Posted May 26, 2005 Premium Members Report Share Posted May 26, 2005 Hi Guys I have herd a different story about the Genesis camera systems. I know that the Steadicam Operator on Superman (currently shooting in Sydney) had big problems with the weight of the system he was expected to fly. And I know that his brand new Ultra arm didnt like it at all. From what I herd the weight damaged the arm servearly. With the Panavision Video Mag and then all the lens's Panatape, Preston, down converter etc it turned a light camera body into a PIG very quickly. The other non steadicam friendly aspect of the camera is the power required to drive the camera. And again from what I herd it required more voltage then an Arri 435 to power and run. My advice, do your homework. Speek to the DOP and the Technical Director / HD person (if there is one) and find out exactly what you are expected to fly well before the job then head into Panavision and see if you are able to do it. Hope it goes well for you. James "JP" Puli Melbourne Australia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Brad Hruboska Posted June 7, 2005 Premium Members Report Share Posted June 7, 2005 Ok so heres a few tidbits I have gleaned from doing the prep for "Primal Scream" a feature being shot primarily on the Panavision HDSR Genesis camera... The camera uses HDSR tape, which runs at double speed of normal HDCAM tape.... so a cassette lasts about 25minutes in normal 23.98 record speed. the camera is a twin battery system, the main sony components all run on 14.4 volts ( thats good for us) but the amperage draw is quite large, 7 amps run, with peaks above 10 or so on start ups....... We have been using twin Dionic 90's for thetests and the test run times are pretty good, at least enough for a full tape and rehearsal etc..... The twining for the PRO 2 uses two camera 3 pin outs and a special distribution block from GPI to parallel the two rear batteries together....ther ultra does not have enough current off of its single 26.6 v battery to drive the camera... a separate power scheme was neccessary for the other steadicam ( yes there are two on the show) so I built a small plate to go on the bottom of the Ultra sled and screwed it to a an old top stage i had in the goodie box ( save all that old stuff guys), two Anton bauer clips hold the extra dionics and it has a 4 pin out, batteries paralled as in the PRO idea. The camera has two three pin lemos with a total power availability of 8 amps off the camera body. This is good but the pana- techs are still nervous about putting a preston MDR on the camera and powering it through the camera... something about power draw issues, Howard P. could you maybe clear the air on this issue? Power connector is different form both Gold/Platinum and the Millenium XL...its a 8 pin lemo, quite beefy, and the main battery with the big Block ( think car battery size) is a cable with multiple connectors and 14.4 and 24 volt discrete power lines.... all the 12 volt accessories are powered off of the 14.4 volt source, all of the 24 v accessory ports are powered from the 24 volt source..... Mostly this is for zoom etc... I am not sure the engineering reasons for needing a twin power supply of this nature but im surea its about keeping compatability with the rest ot the panavision line...... All the Jerry Hill brackets still fit ... yay! There is a new start stop cable required......Howard P. and Jim Bartell take note... its a pulse start....like an 435... new pin config, and ground is critical, ( as we found out today). Camera needs an external monitoring downconvertor, we are using the evertz, small, light enough, trying to find the ideal mounting spot.....Camera provides SDI out already with no eaxtras as well as a Y value Y PbR for black and white monitoring, ( Ultra Bright worked fine in this mode but you need to route the signal to the monitor externally.....) The "mag" whic is a tape drive mounts on top or on the back for steadi/ remote cranes etc..... Lo mode bracket clearance is tight, not a lot of room behind the plate for clearance to the record deck which sits high......soome plates may need to be shaved a bit....Howard Smiths plates fit the best.....up top, and Greg Bubb's below.... I had the whole deal up today with gyros and black springs all around on my PRO arm, and up without the gyros with a black and blue combo....I figured it was easier to swap springs for the gyros than crank and crank the adjusters.....but in normal mode the medium spring configuration was more than adequate....... feels very 535 ish when using, similar weight distribution.... and no mag weight shift to really deal with...... Will keep the bretheren informed as this deal plays out..... B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Chris Haarhoff Posted January 23, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 I'm just about to embark on a prolonged session with the Genisis. I've picked up a couple of ideas in the last couple of weeks, but I'm still keen to hear from others about what they have learned. I fly a PRO rig and although some have solved the issue of the incredible current draw with a Panavision/PRO pigtail cable I feel that the only way not to suffer any voltage or amperage degradation is to run seperate thick guage cables directly from the batteries, bypassing all fuse, switch and lemo plug issues. I've also found that it is a heavy mother&$@ and I'm resisting carrying the heavier AB battery just to try and balance it out. I've been successful so far, but I feel like I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. Like my assistant reminded me that I had not put it in Low Mode yet. All accessories including the downconverter , time code gen are on the sled. The motors are as low as I can get them, the Cinetape is beneath the Matt Box....and Pana assures me that 2 Dionics will make it work for a good while drawing upwards of 10 to 15 amps.. This is the future as I see it...and don't all start wailing at once, but am I missing something? Chris Haarhoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Jeff Muhlstock SOC Posted January 24, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 All accessories including the downconverter , time code gen are on the sled. The motors are as low as I can get them, the Cinetape is beneath the Matt Box....and Pana assures me that 2 Dionics will make it work for a good while drawing upwards of 10 to 15 amps.. This is the future as I see it...and don't all start wailing at once, but am I missing something? Chris Haarhoff Hey Chris, I have not used this monster yet, but a few thoughts in order to eliminate some crap: Time code is very easy to generate off camera and transmit via a very lite weight wireless mic set-up, like a comtek. I have done this many times, works like a charm. Downconverter? is it built in? or can you supply one? I use The AJA, again small and light. Cinetape, well thats an AC issue. The Diontics will run anything, I have 6 (I normally use 2 and a trimpac, and I barely need a charger on set. They run forever. Good luck, let us know how it goes. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Joshua Harrison Posted January 24, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 All accessories including the downconverter , time code gen are on the sled. The motors are as low as I can get them, the Cinetape is beneath the Matt Box....and Pana assures me that 2 Dionics will make it work for a good while drawing upwards of 10 to 15 amps.. This is the future as I see it...and don't all start wailing at once, but am I missing something? Chris Haarhoff Hey Chris, I have not used this monster yet, but a few thoughts in order to eliminate some crap: Time code is very easy to generate off camera and transmit via a very lite weight wireless mic set-up, like a comtek. I have done this many times, works like a charm. Downconverter? is it built in? or can you supply one? I use The AJA, again small and light. Cinetape, well thats an AC issue. The Diontics will run anything, I have 6 (I normally use 2 and a trimpac, and I barely need a charger on set. They run forever. Good luck, let us know how it goes. Jeff Downconverter's are not part of the Genesis system, yet. Hopefully they get that in there soon because almost all remote systems are not HD compatible. What exactly are you saying about the cinetape, that because you don't need it, it should be taken off? In the days of no rehearsals and therefore no marks, any edge you can give your AC is one that makes us all look better. Joshua Harrison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Jeff Muhlstock SOC Posted January 24, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 What exactly are you saying about the cinetape, that because you don't need it, it should be taken off? In the days of no rehearsals and therefore no marks, any edge you can give your AC is one that makes us all look better. Joshua Harrison I am only saying that if your sled is totally maxed out, you might consider striping it down to the bare essentials. Don?t turn this into an AC argument, that's a different board. Obviously, it is an individual decision that is based on the individual AC and operator and what the work of the day looks like. I am not saying "you" don?t need it. There are AC's who don?t ever use it, by the way. Some of the greats... Respectfully, Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Erwin Landau Posted January 24, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 I was trying to get a Panavision Demon of the Genesis going for the Steadicam Guild now for several Months... I think I asked fist back in September when I was preping a Feature there. Guess what, Panavision is still dragging there feet. I talked to Panavision back at CineGear about the use with Steadicam and I was immidiately shut down by just getting ignored. Andrew Rowlands is using it in the moment down In Mexico on Mel Gibsons "Apocalypso" he has a special name for this Camera... Will continue to bug Panavision for a demo... Fly safe, Erwin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Michael Stumpf Posted April 20, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 I'd like to bump this topic to the top again and see if there is any more input and suggestions about using the Panavision Genesis camera. What's the weight of this camera comparable too...535B, BL3, BL4 ??? Any special cables we need to have made? Anybody got any further insight about flying this thing, please chime in. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Erwin Landau Posted April 20, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 More on the Panavision Genocide... eh I mean Genesis. You need new power cables, new Accessory cables etc. somebody mentined they needed different cables to use their video transmitter on it. Weight wise I'm hearing G2 flashbacks. I saw Andrews rig and he had to use a Hytron 140 together with 2 Hytron 50's to balance the puppy on his PRO 2. Also 4 Black springs in the PRO arm and a veeerrrry long centerpost. The last lowmode bracket I saw was still prototype not anaodized shinny fresh from the machinist... towering way above the camera body. On the good side: I was told that Panavision only owns 26 of these Cameras. The chip and the software are not made or supported by Sony anymore. What there is, that's it and 2 cameras got already destroid. I guess we will soon see a Genesis 2. So much for rumors... I'm hoping that a Genesis/Steadicam Demo will be available soon. As soon as beginning May. (pilot season, all cameras are out)... I'm working on it. As for image: Has anybody seen the TV show Night Stalker? That was the Genesis. DP: Robert Primes, ASC. Miami Vice should be pretty soon in Theaters. Superman had a little run in with dailies... After they shot for the first 3 weeks nobody had watched the dailies, when they finally did they realized that the chip in the A-camera had a couple of dead pixels... Just heard that yesterday. So much from here... looking forward to more replies. Fly safe, Erwin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Stephen Murphy Posted April 20, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Miami Vice should be pretty soon in Theaters. Im pretty Sure Miami Vice was shot on Vipers and Panavision XL's. I turned down some dailies last week on a feature shooting over here with the Genocide. The operator they brought in has apparantly been carrying a battery belt over his shoulder to power the beast - i think hes using an Ultra Cine. They had some hard mount stuff on a boat last week - a scene they shot for several hours before somebody finally realised they hadnt actually turned over at all. Start again from scratch. When this same production shot test footage in early pre-production a few months back they managed to drop the Genocide in the ocean so i think we all owe the Grip a beer for that. The fact that they also dropped a 435 in the ocean the following day is another matter alltogether...:) And you thought you were having a bad day. Speaking of beasts ive been flying the master primes for most of the last few weeks and although they look like they way a tonne they actually arent that much heavier then an S4 but physically are almost twice their size. they balance nicely on an LT though. Of course shooting at T1.3 makes it interesting for your AC... Leave the cinetape on all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Michael Stumpf Posted April 20, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Okay, Just got off the phone with Panavision and got a couple specs and such about the Genesis camera. Contradictory to what Panavision puts on their website as the Genesis being of "size and weight" suitable for handheld and Steadicam this is what I was told. The Genesis Camera BODY and Recorder Top together weigh 27 pounds!!! To clarify, that does NOT include the lens, mattebox, cables, etc. For comparison sake, the G2 is listed as being 26.6 pounds with mag, but no film! The old Arri Bl-4 is listed as being 30.9 pounds (without film). A Panavision LW2 weighs in a 20.0 pounds (without film). Obviously a 400' load of film weighs a couple pounds more too. But the HD tape, downconverter and necessary cables would probably be nearly equal to what a 400' load of film weighs. But what really stinks is the need for the heavy battery down low. As Erwin pointed out a Hytron 100, 120, or 140 is needed. These batteries weigh in at 5.5 pounds. A Hytron 50 or Dionic 90 weigh about 1.7-1.8 pounds. So you add another 3.7 pounds in weight down low just to run the camera. So in that sense, flying the Genesis camera is about dead equal in total weight as flying the old tank BL-4 There is one option, but it really doesn't help much. The recorder mount can be removed!! But that means someone having to walk with you to carry the thing. And of course, that means being cabled, by not one, but two additional small coax cables. Neither is more appealing than the other. As for cables, Panavision makes all the needed cables for us. But as they pointed out, it is then property of Panavision and like all there equipment cannot be bought and has to be returned. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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