Premium Members Erwin Landau Posted January 15, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 PAG Lith's are great but I wouldn't recommend them for long term film camera (big 435's etc) use. Your investment may well last only a couple of months if your mostly film based. Hi Rich, Howard Smith would vividly disagree with that. Have a talk to the MK-V guys... Howard? Are you there? I'm no advocate for sony products but I'm Lith based and they are fantastic for video or smaller film camera's especially the BPL-90's unfortunately they stopped manufacturing the 90's. Discontinued due to the fact that they can't be taken onto a plane... Erwin Landau, SOC www.landaucamera.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members David Campbell Posted February 4, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 I love the dionics... on the camera. Very light, charge on same charger as NiCad (older chargers may need a software upgrade), the battery monitor for keeping track of remaining power level seemed accurate and in combination with NiCads on my rig they went on and on (Panasonic HD camera). Haven't tried on the rig and the owner of the HD camera did mention there was a problem with airplane travel with larger capacity Dionic. Certainly worth checking with A/B before buying. David Campbell dscmove@yahoo.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Matias Mesa Posted February 4, 2004 Author Premium Members Report Share Posted February 4, 2004 I just found a company over here in Argentina that re-cells Anton Bauer batteries ( all of them) for U$D 60. They go brand new after and the chargers work exactlly the same way. A friend of mine has ahd his batteries re-celled by the 4 years gao and they are still very powerfull. The company is called Probattery (www.probattery.com) but their site is under construction. I just sended them 2 Proformers and I´ll heve them back by tomorrow. I´ll post some updates. Re-cell your life. Matias Mesa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry McConkey Posted March 4, 2004 Report Share Posted March 4, 2004 A couple of things battery related: My brother recently switched to the Dionic batteries for his PRO system. He is absolutely thrilled with them. His immediate concern was a feature "Stay" that required him to run a 435 at high speed most of the time. They were overcranking lots of shots for possible special effects work in post. He had nicads, but they were pretty old and heavy, and the NiMh which were predictably not up to high amp loads (like the 435 at 150 fps) and so he finally panicked and bought a slew of the Dionics ($$$). He had no trouble during cold nights with a high speed 435 over a period of several months - so in the field testing proved them capable. They are very light as well, but definitely not going to last more than a fraction of the service life of Nicads (maybe 1/2 to 1/3 and only time will tell). They are also very expensive and the recells will add to that impression. Also, I have used a company called SR Batteries for recelling and custom battery packs for years. They do the highest quality work at good prices and they love "special" work with customers including NASA and Rutan's new space vehicle. Well worth considering for any recell job: http://www.srbatteries.com/index.html +1 (631) 286-0079 Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members RonBaldwin Posted March 13, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted March 13, 2004 I guess I'm an old fuddy-duddy, but I am still using my original pro nicads (from Jan '98). They've never been re-celled and have been used nearly everyday for the past 4 years. The ac's I work with always comment on how well they work. I'm using a Frezzy charger and once a month do the recycle/recovery/rescue...ah shucks, whatever the hell the mode is called to run them down and top them off. When they do take a dump on me (knock on wood) they are relativley cheap to re-cell. When this happens, I will dispose of my old nicad cells by throwing them into the ocean...most likely into some sort of wildlife preserve. I still think it's funny when I pull out my pro sled and somebody says "wow, that's an old steadicam" because of the battery system (I started with a stock model 2). Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Alec Jarnagin SOC Posted March 13, 2004 Moderators Report Share Posted March 13, 2004 Ron, I rather like the old PRO. It is solid and there is something to be said for being able to put it on a table without it falling over! Sure, its nice to be able to get some of your battery weight under the center post at times, but look at how many great shots have been done with that system (not to mention Model 1,2,3,etc). Here in New York, where the first generation PRO never caught on as well as in LA, I've had people ask me what I'm talking about when I refer to a PRO 1. And while I usually think it is great to be able to use ready available Anton Bauer batteries, there are times (like when they discontinue batteries that we love) that I think it would be better to have another system. I imagine doing HD is a bit of a chore with the PRO 1 batteries though, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitch Gross Posted March 14, 2004 Report Share Posted March 14, 2004 I always find people's battery choices interesting. Once you've decided to go Anton/Bauer mount it doesn't mean you are stuck with using Anton/Bauer brand bricks. There are a few manufacturers who make A/B mount bricks. Here's some interesting stats I just pulled off the B&H website. A/B Propack (no meter) 65w NiCD, 5.25 ibs, 5.2"x4.5"x3.75", $380 Frezzi BP-14 (no meter) 72w NiCD, 4.9 ibs, 5.5"x4.25"x3", $399 7 more watts, less weight and a little smaller for $19 more. But here's a more interesting one. A/B Hytron 120 (with meter) 120w NiMH, 5.6 ibs, 5.3"x4.5"x3.75", $495 Frezzi BP-14MHEG (with meter) 130w NiMH, 5.5 ibs, 5.5"x4.25"x3", $499 10w more and a little smaller & lighter for a $5 difference. But that same battery is available from Frezzi without a meter for $100 less. I don't believe Hytrons are available without the meter, so that's a big savings for a more powerful brick. And I know that there are other brands like Aspen and soon Switronix that sell A/B mount bricks. These are options that people should look into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Brant S. Fagan SOC Posted March 15, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted March 15, 2004 Folks-- It has been my experience, both in Steadicam work and life itself, that you get what you pay for, and that there NEVER is a free lunch! Especially if the UPM or AD/1 says they are buying!. Back to batteries. Yes, options are great, but reliability, versatility and customer support will win out every time. If you need help with A/B stuff, just check in with Paul Dudeck at A/B 1-800-422-3473 or pdudeck@antonbauer.com. Best prices and best support on the planet. Period. No, I don't work for them or receive a cut, but they have never left me high and dry over the last fourteen years. And for the $100, that meter is a lifesaver. Between the meter and carefull ACs, I don't really think about the batteries until I have to pack them up. Speaking of universal, when I went to Ethiopia on a feature, the local AC and gaffer were thrilled to "show off" their gear knowledge and take over my batteries for me as they had the same stuff over there. Yes, you could find them under a eucalyptus tree. Best, Brant "Still in NH Mud Season" Fagan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Alec Jarnagin SOC Posted March 15, 2004 Moderators Report Share Posted March 15, 2004 Brant. Paul Dudeck is no longer handling sales (at least the B stock), as he has been promoted. John Limauro is now handling them. He is doing a great job and is every bit as attentive. Regardless, everything else you say is true - they will hook you up. As for using other batteries and chargers, I've finally moved into the digital age with Hytron 120s (Jerry Hill battery base; was using Propacs) and it is nice to have the interactive data on the batteries (tells you number of chargers, etc). These new chargers and batteries will not work with other people's stuff though as they have "safe guards" (aka "use our stuff or else"). Anyway, the Hytron 120/Performer combo is a good amount of weight for counterbalance and a lot of watt hours, too. Eric, the Hytron 100s you were using must have been on the older side because they should power HD cameras for a long time. AB claims that the Hytron 100 (now 120, a nice added touch) is their most durable battery (along with the Propacs), capable of high amperage loads and repeated charge/discharge cycles. In short, they call the Hytron 120 their workhorse battery. If I were flying a Pro II battery base, I think I would be looking at the Dionics though because they work better for that configuration. Ultimate owners, has anyone tried powering a 435 from a Dionic? If it worked, this would be very cool. The Performers are a little light in the capacity department and the Trimpacs a little wide; it would be a great weight/profile for this sled (if it works). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Hardwick Posted March 15, 2004 Report Share Posted March 15, 2004 Alec, I haven't tried Dionics yet, but I've been meaning to give Greg Bubb a call to talk about batteries, since he has done some extensive testing of them, and is pretty knowledgeable about them in general. He has some info on his website about the results of these tests (the tests were done some time back). I believe he tested Hytron 50's against Trim Pacs. The Hytron 50's being a 14.4V 50 watt hr. NiMh batt, and the Trim Pac being a 14.4V 45 watt hr. NiCad battery. As I recall, in his tests, the Trimpacs won in pretty much each category. You can read all about it on his site: http://www.xcsinc.com/ultimate/ult_batcmp.html I have heard that it's not particularly good or rather efficient to mix battery chemistries as a general rule in powering sleds (i.e. flying one NiCad type batt with one NiMh or LiIon simultaneously). I can't remember exactly why. If I find out I'll post it. Maybe someone else remembers? Anthony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Eric Fletcher S.O.C. Posted March 15, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted March 15, 2004 Eric, the Hytron 100s you were using must have been on the older side because they should power HD cameras for a long time. AB claims that the Hytron 100 (now 120, a nice added touch) is their most durable battery (along with the Propacs), capable of high amperage loads and repeated charge/discharge cycles. In short, they call the Hytron 120 their workhorse battery. If I were flying a Pro II battery base, I think I would be looking at the Dionics though because they work better for that configuration. Nope, Been dealing with the Hytron 100/120 problem for 18 months, the problem is the NmHi chem is the wrong chem for the FW900, the internal resistance of the Hytrons is to high for long run time. Next to Greg's Hytron 50 vs Trimpack test I have probally done more testing on this then anyone. Bottom line is that a NEW Hytron 100 will run a FW900 for 35 Mins IF your lucky, It will also get wicked hot doing that. The Dionic 90 will run the camera for 80 to 100 mins depending on temp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Michael Stumpf Posted March 15, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted March 15, 2004 Anthony, Greg has not done any testing on the Dionics. We spoke about this the other day, when i ordered a couple Dionics for video jobs. 1 year ago, I bought 10 Proformers for my PRO. Proformers are tried and true, but have the drawback of not running HD or Beta SP camera for more than 15-20 minutes. The Dionics solve that issue. But as Greg and I talked, the Dionics haven't been proven in extreme cold and/or extreme summer heat on say a 435 (to our knowledge). I spoke with A/B and found out it is true they are no longer manufacturing the Proformers, and have NO intention of making a replacement for them, but they will continue to honor the 3 year warranties on them whenever you do buy them. I'm thinking of ordering a handful more as back ups to the ones I have. But wanted to make sure they have a good "shelf" life since I probably won't be using the back ups for a couple years. And they do which was not only confirmed by Greg Bubb, but one of the reps at Anton Bauer, and one of the guys at B&H all said they have a shelf life of 2-3 years without ANY problems and probably more, and you'd still have a battery that could get it's full cycle life (300+). So, I figure, I have about 2 years left on my current 10 Proformers, then we they're done, I'll have a bunch of brand new ones, that should be good for another 2-3 years! Take care all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Hardwick Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 Michael, I didn't mean to imply that Gregg had tested the Dionics, but I see how my post made it sound like that. My apologies to you and your English/Grammar teacher mum for that ;) When I wrote, "I haven't tried Dionics yet, but I've been meaning to give Greg Bubb a call to talk about batteries, since he has done some extensive testing of them, and is pretty knowledgeable about them in general." The "them" in that sentence was meant to refer to "batteries" in the preceding clause, and not Dionics. The unclear writing on my part was probably due to waking up too early and posting after a 3:00 am wrap this morning. Sorry about the confusion. Anthony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Hardwick Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 Next to Greg's Hytron 50 vs Trimpack test I have probally done more testing on this then anyone. Bottom line is that a NEW Hytron 100 will run a FW900 for 35 Mins IF your lucky, It will also get wicked hot doing that. The Dionic 90 will run the camera for 80 to 100 mins depending on temp. Eric, Please do post the results of your extensive testing for us all to benefit from. Be sure to include relevant information regarding your control and procedural methods in evaluating the various batteries, as Greg has done. This would be most valuable information for all steadicam operators to have. Thanks in advance, Anthony PS - has anyone tried the Dionics on a sled to power a 435 at high speed? If so, how did it work? My apologies if this has been posted and I missed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith greenwood Posted March 16, 2004 Report Share Posted March 16, 2004 ;) I just did a job (Super Millionaire with my master Series Film and I had 4hytron 50s and 2 dionic 90s with an Anton HOT Swap (I think that is what they call it) It utilizes a QR gold to CP adapter as I am sure you already know. and attaches the smallere bateries side by side . combined the weigh less than a single anton digital pro pac 14v. The Dionics lasted forever. Powering BFD focus and Heden motor, 6v returm monitor, Transvideo View finder and Marshal 7.9 LCD Tele propter set up. I had 4 hour Live to tape shoots with alot of stop downs and I never power the rig down. I just bought 2 more. I haven't and I don't do alot of 24v work but I do alot!!!! of broadcast work triax powered cameras and so far the weight and performance of these batteries far exeed anything I have ever used (incuding newly celled CP style Master Batteries witch take forever to fully charge and sometimes lie about there charge.!!!. I know that in the grand sceem of things I am still a (Padawan learner) "Star Wars" but I have learned alot in the last 10 years of struggling and succeding in this crazy little business of ours . I hope this helps . Good luck. Keith Greenwood Alias: Keith Sweat. Maximum Steadicam INC PS, this my first reply since I started this crazy life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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