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How to do close up circling shot?


Sean Seah

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If you need to move very precicly with a long lens in a perfect circle, why not just rent a circular dolly track? You can use as long a lens as possible and you can put stuff like lights on it.

 

I know Steadi is often used instead of a dolly for the sake of time on set. That's a separate discussion. Often times with roundy rounds, however, we don't start or end exactly in the circle. We either move into it, or move out of it somehow. Something a dolly can't do.

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There's also an emotional component to circling with a Steadicam vs. on a dolly in a "perfect" circle - the speed and size changes available with Steadicam operating means you can react to the drama (or act with the drama) as it suits you, as opposed to the more emotionally removed or mechanical "perfect" circle.

 

Circling with the Steadicam also allows the actors to move, clearly an option not (easily) available when working with a dolly. And you can use wider lenses and show the floor, or longer lenses and not have the dolly vibrations get through.

 

Soft mounted on a dolly on track is another great option, keeping the image size more or less constant and relieving you of the navigating task (and allowing you to step on or off).

 

It all depends what the director wants.

 

In all cases, it's critical to be trimmed for headroom, and it's always better to be in dynamic balance (how much better depends on the speed of the move and the operator...).

 

As many have said, practice.

 

Jerry

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Same goes for the direction of Z (which could just as easily be called X, Y, L, B, +, *, or vertical for any two people who agree on it).

 

Well actually brian that's why we do call the axis what we do, so that two people can talk about it and use common terms. If you go off and decide to rename the axis then YOU would be at a disadvantage when trying to communicate with those of us that use the accepted convention

 

Perhaps of more bearing is the semantic recognition of a circle shot either being (if only in part) a pan or not being a pan. As long as the two discussing it agree on (or simply understand the other's use of) the terminology, the same result can be achieved with each definition. A circle shot can easily be looked at as one big body pan while tracking or as one big tracking shot that happens to be on a curved track. Both interpretations are valid, what matters in the end is that we get the shot, and hopefully understand why we succeeded.

 

Please explain how a circling shot could be "looked at as a body pan". It can't be because the very definition of a pan means to rotate the camera AROUND IT'S OWN AXIS. Walking a curved line with tidal locking a circle shot has ZERO PAN COMPONENT, the camera is never rotated around it's axis. No interpretation is needed. That's what the moon, it's orbit and tidal locking has to do with operating a circling shot thank you very much.

 

 

And Brian you might want to look up the definition of a tracking shot.... "The tracking shot can include smooth movements forward, backward, along the side of the subject, or on a curve. Dollies with hydraulic arms can also smoothly "boom" or "jib" the camera several feet on a vertical axis. Tracking shots, however, cannot include complex pivoting movements, aerial shots or crane shots." And yes that is from the same source that certain people here love to goto when they try to defend their made up word it still applies and is correct

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I think everyone knows what a circling shot is, regardless of how you define pan...

 

BTW, I think Brian is right on all points, the camera does pan 360 degrees, and it can be a "body pan" as we typically describe it. Clearly a whip pan of the "body type" is a pan, even though the relationship of the camera to the operator (and bearings, yoke, arm, etc.) is constant... taking it further, are hand held pans not pans? Huh?

 

And I've always referred to Charles as "The Baron" or, in conversation as "His Baronness," but the latter is often mis-understood if the listener is not up on the hoity-toity stuff.

 

Jerry

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BTW, I think Brian is right on all points, the camera does pan 360 degrees, and it can be a "body pan" as we typically describe it. Clearly a whip pan of the "body type" is a pan, even though the relationship of the camera to the operator (and bearings, yoke, arm, etc.) is constant... taking it further, are hand held pans not pans? Huh?

 

Jerry

 

If you can do the shot with the camera on a fixed mount with no rotation about it's axis it's not a pan and that's what you're doing in a circling shot.

 

As for your other questions Jerry, let's leave those for the working operators. Remind us of the last show you worked on.... (careful of your answers Jerry, cause I will go there)

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Stop bullying folks. Go away if that's all you are interested in.

 

Really. Threaten me again? Go away.

 

I'm semi-retired by choice, but can still operate just fine, thank you. And I have done wonderful work on really big and small movies and commercials and documentaries. By your idiotic remark, Garrett's opinions should not be treated with respect?

 

NUTS. COMPLETELY NUTS.

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I'm semi-retired by choice, but can still operate just fine, thank you. And I have done wonderful work

 

Yes by choice of directors and DP's. And precisely for your "Wonderful" work. It's amazing the emails texts and phone calls that I've gotten from folks once you and a few others started bullying people that didn't like what you have to say or the gear YOU REPRESENT.

 

Like they say. Those that can, do. Those that can't, teach

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Wow! Look how the topic is evolving!

 

About 60% of my gigs, I've been asked to do at least one 360 shot.

Something likes, coming in from a distance with a wide, then circle(s), then out to a wide to the other side...

 

A perfect circling shot is a shot where the subject is at the center of the constant-radius circling camera.

Based on what I learned from my mentor, and what I've done, a perfect circling shot does not require gimbal pan nor body pan.

Once, you head room is trimmed, and your framing is set, just walk or run around the subject while keeping the same radius distance.

 

But, a perfect circling shot is boring!

I try to vary it a lot by not placing the subject at the center of the circle. Or I do an ellipse instead.

In these above cases, body pan and gimbal pan come to play to keep better frame the subject.

 

It's new year guys!

Please have a new and better resolution.

 

Cheers,

 

Ken Nguyen.

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Here is my 360 from 6 years ago during a live show. The problem with this shot was that i didnt know where i was after a few rounds, haha. But like said here before, the camera is not panning during this shot. http://www.jobscholtze.nl/play.php?file=evita&title=Evita

 

Its a while back, but what i remember was that it had a lot of zooming in there and fast running, becose the circel was wide.

 

Janice, you can disagree with Eric, but as a moderator the comments like " Go do one of your other hobbies " isnt really helping i am affraid.

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