Mikko Wilson

*steps up the the plate* I'll give it a shot at least.. Going by the diagram, when the boom is off front of the truck it's "attached" near the back. Due to the length of the boom this would place more of the truck under the boom and move that pivot point (front wheels) closer to the mass on the boom. When the boom is off the back (like it is in the diragram) the attachment point is in the center of the truck. This is closer to the new pivot point (the back wheels) than with the boom facing forward. So this woudl reduce the capaciy of the boom. So how can the boom actually hold more when it's facing backwards? My guess is that the answer lies in the CG of the base of the truck. In the previous theoretical drawings the CG was in the center. However for the boom to be more stable, the CG woudl have to actually be closer to the FRONT of the truck. And i think it is. Most of that truck is a empty bed, the crane operator's cab moves witht eh boom, so that has no effect. So here's my vote: The engine! I think the Engine moves the CG of the truck so far forward that it can better ballance against the boom's load witht he boom off the back. Anyone care to do a fancy Drawing? - Mikko

Paul, I'm not goign to take over the thread by any means. I don't feel i'm near qualified to. But i'm happy to join in the chatter! :-) David, Oh you are refering to the mass *Of the ladder itself*... ...well yeah, i agree that this would definatly cause a slight shift - just as the weight of the arm does effect operating.. (Someone who can easily compare 2 arms,, (Say a Master and Geo arm) confirm this please!) But for general calculations it's irrelevent. - For example (back to the original topic) The arm is still there anyway when you connect to a BM vest as opposed to a FM vest. Just as Dymnamic ballance can be measured and calculated: "Measure the main components: Camera, battery, monitor and any other accesories" and do the math, easy! Now i dont' knwo anyone who actually then weighs the post of the sled, and the monitor mounting rods, and the battery rods.. The forces are so small it's irrelevent. Same with the firetruck.. I agree that these forces no wear near include all the forces in the equasion, but they are only to demonstrate the main principles. I mean yeah you could as the weight of the ladder. But then there's the friction of the tires on the road, then the fact that the ground isnt' flat but curved (eath is round) then there's the position of the moon and it's gravety (strong enough to effect tides, so must be on the drawing...) And then there's the fact that if the truck tiped it would roll on it's wheels which would affect the pivot point slightly beacuse they would act as a cam... I apologize how absurd that sounded.. But i was just making the point that I dont' think that the ladder counts in our calculations. I do however agree with you that the truck doesn't have to be in perfect balance to keep the ladder up. The 'balace/tipping point' (overall CG) must be somewhere between the wheels. This goes back to my analogy of the length of our feet. This can be tested as simply as: imagine the mass on the end of the ladder moves towards the truck (Say a firefigter climbs down the ladder) the truck won't fall over backwards. In fact the truck would never fall over backwards untill the overall CG got behind the *back* wheels. The only time perfect ballance is required is if the backwards pivot point is the same as the forward pivot point! ...This is why we operate standing on our feet properly, and not on our toes! (that and we'd all have broken toes by now!) The wider teh base between pivot points (eg: wider wheelbase), the more stable an object (the more range for the CG to be in untill it corsses that magic boundry) This is why when you drive on a hillside that horizontal space between the wheels gets smaller and you become less stable. I agree with you that the drawings dont' illustrate all the forces, but I feel that the ommited foreces are irrelevent to the discussion (at least regarding tipping forward) And I agree that the system doesn't have to be perfectly in ballance to remain stable. Only that the overall CG (all that matters) is suppoted on both sizes to prevent it from falling. Ok.. so now i'm not sure who i agree with! :unsure: Myself i guess.. ;) - Mikko

Interesting stuff.. I'd think that you woudl always be exactly in ballance when operating if you where pivoted on a point. but as yoru boot essentially has 2 pivot points your overall CG must be bbahind the front of your foot (or you woudl fall forward) and forward of the back of your foot (or you would fall backwards). So if your foot was very thin, then only woudl you be exaclty in ballance.. Now where the 'optimum' operating position is between the front and back of your foot i guess is a matter of oppinion? I think that when you lean back you are chainging your CG because you are of course moving the mass of your body. But i dont' see how moving the ladder's attactment point has any effect.. It's still only the center of masses that matter. (Pun intended) I can see that if the mass ont eh end of the ladder moved when you move the ladder (which woudl make sence in real life) THEN of course mass would be moving and changing the CG. But with for example a extension ladder that allows the mass to remain in position when the attachment point moves wouldn't effect teh CG. Just my ponderments on teh issue. - Mikko

Heh.. I had jsut the same problem with a GL2 on a homebuilt sled. My friend sugested the "vietnam" style battery (like taping to magazines back to back for holding more ammo...) I ended up going for a old bolt taped to the battery to add weight lower instead (still behind the post of course..) Glad that trick worked! - Mikko

I am planning on going to IBC again this year, as I'm sure many others are. As hotel rooms begin to slowly fill up, I'm looking into my travel options. Are there any Steadicam related events that will be taking place at (or around) IBC this year? On what dates are they? (Last year I left the day of the Tiffen get together in the PM.. bummer..) So when *should* I (and others) plan on beeing there? - I can't stay the whole time due to time restrictions. Also, I'm interested in sharing a hotel room and splitting the cost if anyone wants to save a a couple of bucks (or Euros...). - Mikko

You had your shadow in teh shot quite a few times there.. i dunno.... No, but seriously. Looks like my first time in low mode! - You have a ratehr camera friendly dog! It'd be interesting to see some rehearsed shots. What drop time you using for that? Isn't low mode a bitch? - Mikko

I second Job's comments. - Mikko

Whew! Done! Well I finally managed to see Star Wars. All of them. :wacko: And they where great! :lol: - I'v been watching them every other night for the past 2 weeks. And I just saw Return of the Jedi tonight. A very impressive set of movies. I can definatly see where they have got their following. And iI do agree that the older ones are better then the newer ones. For some reason, the new ones look *less* realistic than the old ones. (Which I saw from VHS to see the original versions) And yes, the story is way better in 4,5, and 6. Very fine SFX work in all of them. ... I had been long awaiting the chance to see the speeder chase. VERY impressive work by Garrett. David, I understand your point about not automatically hating Vader. I must say that I didn't figure out how it was going to end, however I did feel that compassion that you warned of. (Albight concioussly..) I'm almost bummed that I didn't see them the 'normal' way, however unfortunatly I had to make a choice. ...Now all that's left is to watch Space Balls again... it should make more sence this time :P - Mikko

Casey, Where in AK are you shooting? I'm in Juneau for the summer. Also, if you do end up going Steadicam, be sure to get a vest with the Brake-Away rip cord system! If you are near water you will definatly want that safty! And don't forget your PFD! - Mikko

Oh those are both so cool! .. Ok, so you get the rig on and you fly it on the segway.. then waht? stopiing? docking? getting off? - or is it a "one shot" deal? :-P - Mikko

Didin't someone say that they Flew from a Segway at a get-together fairly recently? was that NAB related maybe? ..or the Tiffen gathering.. ANYWAY, someone has reportedly done it.. Considering how the Segway works by moving when you lean (hmm.. just like a Steadi) I'd thank that it might even work spectacualrly well if you coudl get the segway to move at the same rate as the rig when you lean! ..Though i'm not sure, because there 2 opposing ballance systems at work there.. And I quote: "[steadicam is not good for:] Things that regularly crash..." Interesting stuff. - Mikko

LOL! That puppy is sweet! - Mikko

The flyer arm at least uses a stocket block connection - so ti at least requires thw Flyer vest (or at least a flyer socket block) - Note: The flyer socketblock is NOT the standard socket black, but a slightly smaller [cheaper] version that works the same way. - Mikko

No the arm isnt' inverted, it's an SK2, not an SK. - this is the biggest difference between the rigs. and yes it's done to help clearance. Just the other day someone mentioned flipping the SK arm, but someone else said it was a bad idea because it woudl cause teh arm to explode. ..more about it in some other thread thats somewhere around here.. Yes spredding th eweght around will imporse it's effect, bot in balancing, and increasing inertia. Oh yeah and a weight cage is definalty a good option. - I guess i took that one as a defacto option ;-) - Mikko.

"Four months after reading it, I was hooked, trained, and partially bankrupt." ...expensive $14 wasn't it :P "don't trow your money away with junk." ...A MEN! (interprit as you wish..) Oh and Happy B-day Job! - Mikko

Don't kid about stuff like that chris! :o no but really. Some of the handheld rigs are prety decent, thgouh you wiull get very tired using them.. If possible i'd go for a lightweight ful rig, ..maybe just as a rental depending if you need it. But really, if you are on a budget, my sugestion woudl eb to get the best quality, not the oen with the best features. so a bad one with bells and whistles won't perform as well as a basic modle with care put in where it counts. If you can't afford a rig to buy or rent, then there is the tripod trick in a pinch(extend the centerpost of a tripod and hold it with teh panhead on your hand. - the wight of the legs will counterballance the camera and you'll get some stabilization at teh most basic level.) But if you really want GOOD steadicam shots, then it unfortunatly will cost you a bit of money. dont' forget that some shot's can *also* be achived in other ways (though maybe not quite as well). - Mikko

Generally any meathod of adding weight to the system is accepted - provided that it's firmly attached (Not sliding around) But also rember the physics.. a 2lb wight at 10inches will seem like 4lb at 20inches! So by positioning wieght further from the gimble you can redude teh weight to be carried. - Of course this only applies to sled ballancing.. there is of course the minum range of the arm. I have tried a metal plate below and above the camera (on a low-mode clamp)... I prefer on the lwo mode clamp. I think the best solution to get max inertia would be to use a lowmode clamp to attach a 2nd dovetail plate to the top of there camera and then use it to place on some extra wights - then you are also set for low mode. - Or better yet, use Antlers! Here's one solution we used at a workshop with a *really* small camea on an SK2: http://mikko.n3.net/photos/flying/pages/tr...K2_SOA2004.html That's a big AB Battery under the camera, held in securley with tape of course! - Mikko

...Funny looking sled in the 1700 :P - Mikko

Oh yeah, I definatly agree that chronologically may not always be the best way to watch things in a series. But I also like taking opertunties to look at things in a different way - if nothing more than for the great conversation/debate possibileties that arise from diversifide points of view. :-) - Mikko

Well actually today I just flew home to Finland. ...But i'm only here for a week before heading off to Alaska for the summer. :-) - Mikko

I never saw a Steadi op in the shot, thoguh i did see the Pedestal guys crouched down in front a few times and the cranes on each side. I saw the upstage camera duck down in the background, after one shot. And there was one time when a crane ducked right into the middle of a shot.. but they cut clear preaty quick (only to come to the crane for a lift moments later) ..I think the coverage very well matched the acts ..which incidently where all very similar in my oppinion. :-P - Mikko

I though the one behind the stage was probabaly track. ...but I was refering to the one ON stage. - there where a couple of really impressive arc and whip combinations around the lead singer in a couple of acts.. Yeah some really good crane work too. ..and all the dutch heads on the other mounts too! - like the dolly through the croud that would dutch all the time. - Mikko

Just finished watching the Eurovision Song Contest From Kiev (Ukrane). Very imprsseive show (as it always is) broadcast live throughout Europe. But I was wondering who opped it? I'm preaty sure there where 2 rigs flying... At least the rig on the stage was incrdible. Some really good shooting there. And in the pit I couldn't tell if it was steadi or not, if it weas it was really good too. Anyone own up to this gig? ..Or see it? - Mikko

Aww bummer. If it's not weather, then it's techinical! - Mikko

I too have been waiting to see this film.. but for a slightly different reason. I have a confession to make.. as a kid I lived out in the countryside and very rearely went to the movies. As a result, I've (deep breath) never seen the original 3 films (Episodes 4, 5 and 6)! :o By the time I'd realized that I was about the only person I know who hasn't seen them it was time for episode 1 to come out. So I figured I'd just watch them in chronological order. (how many of you get the chance to do that?) :P So Episode 3 is the missing link I've been waiting for. I haven't had a chance to get out and see it yet, but I see a 6 night long Marathon sometime in my very near future! :) - Mikko