Justin Besser

Does that mean the tally is wired to both the 8 pin and 2 pin?

Ok, no worries, thanks I'll give it a go..

So at the moment pin7 on my sled is wired up as the tally line, my cables were made by terry west who liaised with you about the pin out of the plugs and had them made to that spec and I had sent my monitor back to you to have the tally wired up to the 8pin.. And they are the wrong way? Ok.. How do I make sure this is the case? Before I have to go and modify anything..

Can anyone chime in with some good feedback on the 3.1 system, no much in the way of reviews or feedback or video out there .. haven't heard of many people in the professional market using them currently. mainly interested in response time (heard some conflicting reports on small amounts of motor lag), and range am looking at a 3 motor system without the expense of a Preston, still require solid performance ( preston would be ideal, just locked out of that on price currently. please dont berate me on looking for the cheaper option, live television in my primary market, so cant currently justify the high initial expense of that system )

Chris (cinetronic) if your listening I would really love if you chimed in on this..

Talked through checking the sled and cables with chad from Pro (fantastic help as always) there is no problem in the wiring from the sled to the monitor (checked with continuity on a multimeter) so I am guessing it is something within the monitor.. I removed the back panel and as the wiring is underneath some IC boards I can see what is actually wired.. Would it be safe to assume if I apply voltage across pin 7(tally) and pin8 (ground) on the monitor I should see the tally light up? Does an input need to active to see this?

Tally is enabled in the menu And the tally mod was ordered with the monitor -How would I make sure the tally voltage is getting through the sled without buying some sort of breakout cable? -pulling the lemo connector apart the wires seem to all be connected -how would I check if the tally has been wired to the 8pin or to the 2 pin on the monitor?

Trying to get the Tally running from my PRO Cinelive into my Cinetronic Gen2 (wired for tally to 8pin) Had a Tally cable (sensor & led) + Monitor Cable (8pin lemo) made by Terry West -plug the tally cable into the sled and shining a light onto the sensor the LED lights up. -plug the monitor cable and shine the light into the sensor LED still lights up on the top but no tally being shown at the monitor .. anyone having an issue with it? what would be the correct/best way to troubleshoot to identify the problem in the chain?

When are the Levels going to ship Chris ? Paid the invoice you sent through for the remainder 13 days ago now and have had no reply to my emails wanting a ship date or tracking number ? seriously dude what is going on ?

if you would like to read between the lines, my issue is about communication.. I understand each person will have a different experience, this is simply been mine; I am coming at this purely from a customer point of view, I have no personal connection to chris or mike, no business link apart from buying a monitor. I did my initial research, and decided this would be the best solution for me, it was expensive, but I felt the extra initial investment would reap its benefits down the line, maybe I should of gone with 2 less specced, cheaper monitors, but why? the feedback I had read was this was an excellent company producing a monitor that couldn't be matched in terms of features, I had made the assumption each person giving their opinion was coming from a non-bias point of view, "the customer".. looking at each piece of gear to purchase when buying a first setup, do I think, maybe I should sacrifice on the quality, simply to buy 2 of each, so I have a backup ... do you do that with every purchase you make ? why specifically with the monitor? everything is susceptible to fault, manufacturing, accident & element related faults .. I reasonably felt by investing in the best piece of gear for the job, my backup would be a good line of communication and support if something did go wrong.. each of the issues that have been brought up were done so after a communication breakdown in me dealing with cinetronic on a one-one basis .. yes, the battery plate can be sorted with a simple solution of velcro, but I was informed that I would be sent a new battery plate (by having an initial response like "I'm sorry about this concern, play is inherent in a portion of battery plates, and the industry standard solution is to place 3 tabs of velcro onto the plate to minimise play" would of been more appropriate), RE; tally was told there would be a possible local engineer to help fix without having to send back, there were other concerns too, then to have them firstly ignored when I asked about the timing of the solutions, and finally after multiple emails and a significant amount of time (leaving me in limbo, shall I send it back? is there a local guy? etc) to tell me to finally send it back, thats when the other image issues (what this thread is initally about) started to arise, and then it became a fact of this monitor is faulty on a few more levels than I am willing to accept as just being my issue to deal with at my expense .. I purchased a specific product for a specific job and its requirements. I bought it under the impression this was a generation 2 product from a niche company dealing with and understanding steadicam operators , it comes with a premium price tag. I did this from the other side of the world based on opinions in this forum which I have always read as a source of information, I do not have the luxury of lots of disposable cashflow to stem every single issue that may arise, some issues will be dealt with in a very "mcguyver" way and some by purchasing backups, I also do not have the luxury of local service for nearly anything nor years of experience and contacts .. but If I deal with a company at this level I do expect an open, clear and honest line of communication.. that is what my issue is about, the frustrations expressed in this thread are the by-product of the lacking communication. everything could of been sorted by me sucking it up and buying a 2nd hand monitor, paying for the shipping back to cinetronic (yes, may be $60 for an uninsured, un-trackable package back to the USA, which takes in my experience 10+ days x2 ways, or the $300 for the 'standard' of fedex), waiting an undefined amount of time to have the unknown problem dealt with, along with ignoring the way my issue as the customer was dealt with by the lack of support .. thats what I feel I have garnished from the responses here, this all for a monitor that is less than 6 months old and I didn't create the fault.. take this if you want as a new operator in the industry having a "bitch" (thanks Eric), and being stupid enough to sit on my primary without having some sort of backup. But each person is entitled to their opinion, and entitled to inform other people of their experience so the next 'customer' (who may also be a newer op from a far away place) can make a well informed decision about what direction they will take ..

and I am quite offended that you would imply I sit around on my arse posting negative comments on this forum, I have much much better things to do, I am busy out there working and doing a multitude of other useful activities than being an internet troll.. I again re-enforce the statement I simply have come to the forum to solve an issue that hasn't been able to be resolved in another way.. AS for quashing innovation, again, I am offended you would post that in relation to this post .. I invested my money in your product, I support 'innovators' and small business, those who go out on a limb to try and improve something, I want you to succeed as it would of been a stupid business decision if I bought a product from someone with the intention of destroying their brand leaving me with no support behind that product at all.

Chris, its only when people write something in a public forum that you respond, and with some vigor this time it seems .. this is not an isolated incident related only to me .. I am not attacking you.. you have a business, selling monitors, you chose to get into that business for a business decision, not out of the good grace of your heart, you are not doing me a favor here, you are collecting my money in a transaction and supplying a piece of equipment, which in my best knowledge at the time, I decided to go with you as a supplier .. This is an issue that has come up many times here on this forum, people trying to get a response, and I am sure many more times with people who are not prepared to bring it up in public, and I didn't want to, and yet I feel I am forced to simply to get some response .. The previous issus I had, I dont want to harp more on them, nowhere in this thread I have mentioned these issues, but seeing as you have, I was extremely disappointed but have given up talking about them because I didn't feel we could come to a reasonable conclusion. you had told me, yes, I have someone local to you that may be able to fix the problems, and I will send you out a new battery plate, but that soon changed to, "thats the battery plate we supply, deal with it, put some velcro on it" (which I have done, and it solves the problem, but doesn't fix the fact you supplied something that doesn't properly work) & also "we dont have anyone local to you to fix the tally issue" (which in the meantime I have had someone make the correct cables for it, to solve this problem) .. which basically says to me, its your problem now, and not ours .. and mind you, all of that came after multiple, multiple emails trying to get some answer at all .. I have no problem waiting with gear , but I do have a problem with someone telling me, ready in 2 weeks, ready in 2 weeks, etc .. for a few months .. own up to the fact that you weren't going to be ready, and make a realistic statement about when it will be, better to say, "ready in 3 months", then be ready in 2 .. yes, when you buy a preston, you wait for 4 months, but they dont spin to you and tell you it will be ready sooner .. I am not bitter, I am not negative, this forum is a great community to share ideas and express concerns and opinions .. this is my real experience with a supplier that I have had a transaction with, I am not lying or putting negativity out there into the world for no reason, I am here trying to get something resolved that should be done via the email or phone but unfortunately I have to bring on this forum because you choose to only respond to me here .. I have tried calling, many many times, never have I got an answer, except for that one time where, yes, I had run into a severe software issue and you answered your mobile ..I call during business hours and its reasonable to think that if I call 10 times that once I would be able to get a person rather than having to leave a message, I have called and left messages too, but never had them responded to.. I understand you have fantastic at what you do, you have invested time and energy into the steadicam community in an assisting role, operator and now manufacturer, I commend you for that and I hope to have some success in my career too. my situation is I saved up for years, worked and assisted and given up so much to be able to do this job, I have invested my life savings into equipment which will hopefully take me through my career, there is a certain expectation, wether I am buying something from some major brand name corporation, or mum and dad homejob down the road that when I invest my money into their business I am getting something of quality, good customer service, and no bullshit, simply with that I am happy and will broadcast that positive message to the world too .. Your issues here would be resolved with some great customer service, or getting someone in that can provide that element to your business.. I simply want my monitor fixed, this is currently a warranty issue, I need to chat to a real person about this to see how to move forward on this..

Jens, it is not Chris' fault that I live so far away, you are correct, but it is thier responsibility to have provided me with a working monitor without fault, I tried to call and email in regards to who is going to pay for the shipping to get this sorted, but no-one responds to me. I did consider that this would be purchased from overseas, but I did not forsee all the problems I've had with this supplier. I deal with companies that are based in that side of the world, small companies too, GPI Pro being the perfect example, that have quite possibly the best customer service i've ever had, even compared to local suppliers, whenever there has been an issue, straight on to it, great communication, and sorting out shipping if there has been something they have overlooked . so I dont accept the excuse , "we are a small company based far away from you" .. Also I have had a couple of jobs on so not had a chance to send the monitor back yet, and you are right, as a professional I should have a backup monitor, this is my first steadicam purchase, so it cant be expected that I have backups of everything, I am still building my kit and I sink all of my time and money back into steadicam .. I had spent a lot of money on monitor hire initially whilst waiting for the cinetronic that could of been spent on a backup monitor, but the response i kept getting from film-stuff was "1-2 more weeks" so I kept holding out .. that turned out to be a few months, which left me with a hire monitor that cost the same to hire as purchasing the new one.. All i want was someone to talk to me on the phone, I am sick of delayed/no emails, sick of answering machines that never get responded to, sick of excuses.. I hate talking about this on a public forum, but this seems the only way to illicit some kind of response .. I want a manufacturer to stand by their claim "the new standard", "our next great achievement" .. well those things require great customer service too.. I will actually be sending it in this week, there is a gap in work that allows me to do that, presumably at my own cost now, but I need this fixed

The Problem seems to be getting worse, the image starts to get real dark, looses contrast and gets this red/brown looking stain over it. It renders the picture almost un-useable after a while ... I have also found a couple of dead/stuck pixels .. trying to contact chris or mike is painful to say the least, no-one answers their phone and my emails are going un-responded to.. I am based in Sydney/Australia and not able to just drop in to get this resolved .. unsure what to do at this point, or what options I have.. I need a fix and it seems unfair for the amount of money i've sunk into this thing and the time spent waiting and waiting for absolutely everything (for the monitior to be send, for emails to be answered, for the level, etc etc) that I am going to be left with a brick.. anyone have any ideas ?

further detail to that I have the brightness set low (maybe at 30) and only turn the backlight up .. if I cast a shadow over the monitor the picture appears normal.. its like if the backlight is up and there is light on the front this strange red pattern appears on light areas of the picture ..

An image defect issue that seems to be getting worse. See attached picture. the part of the image that is a reddish colour, I was actually shooting a white wall .. it seems when I turn up the backlight up past halfway, all the whites turn a weird red, as if the backlight is illuminating some defect on the panel. This also happens when the sun shines on the screen .. it looks like a red smeary pattern that shifts around .. anyone else have this issue ? Justin

definitely good points, and need to invest more in purchasing all the little bits and pieces, but has to be at a pace that matches the work, already a large invest in steadicam in the first place - the Australian market is quiet small, I am coming in as a new operator, and through a live TV background, so cant be expected to have every trick and solution sorted .. this forum is a great help though.. are there any lists of manufacturers of bits and pieces for steadicam out there?

ah, well there was a reasoning behind using that, and yes I usually try and get rid of the baseplate and just use the dovetail, BUT, the dovetail plate I had could only be mounted so that the rod poked way out infront of the lens that I couldn't get the focus motor to engage where the focus ring was .. I didn't have access to any other adaptors or mounts so the F65 baseplate helped to eleviate that problem .. trust me , I was trying to shed weight whereever possible ..

why is that Richard ? what is the best way ? still learning here ..

Couple of pics from that shoot, was a fantastic experience .. Video can be seen at

Had my cinetronic for about 6 weeks now, used it on primarily live television jobs but had a few production shoots .. am based in Sydney, Australia. so dealing with issues is much more difficult, cant just send it back as its considerable cost. CONS -Its already been mentioned about the lack of communication but it did frustrate me severely. never able to get anything except for a answering machine when I call. -no clear timeline on anything, awaiting the level and some functionality which was assumed to be there when released (histogram). -ordered with the assumption that tally would be built into the 8pin, mated with the GPI Pro Cinelive, that wasn't the case, discussion with chris revealed this was a option, but not an option that was asked or mentioned at all when it was being built. currently using an external zalax tally system till I can find some resolve which may unfortunately means buying more cables -all this talk of the monitor being waterproof, or water resistant, well, the physicality of the monitor is, but you cant get water on the touch panel, capacitive touchscreens active with water, buttons are actived in the rain, had to cover with pastic .. chris mentioned there will be a touch panel lock out feature in the future (timeline?), this was a main reason for my purchase, operating on live sport involved any kind of weather -unable to update firmware currently, no access to a windows machine. -yoke keeps coming loose, not sure why the tension cant be set and it stays that way. -paid for an AB plate on the back, was a considerable additional cost, but the plate was a copy plate, not an original, and the battery is loose when mated, very annoyed as an original AB plate isn't that expensive, and I cant really use it if the battery is vibrating. have to tape it down. -using an OB camera which is outputting a 50i signal get severe ghosting of the image, to the point of distraction.. -bit worried about the heat issue, coming into an australian summer, it gets extremely hot, hasn't been yet, so will be able to make judgement when that happens PROS -monitor is bright, can see it under any conditions, -well built, feel it will last a long time as long as the firmware continues to update -light when you need it to be, and with a battery makes a good weight -got a picture up with all the cameras i've used (sony 1500, alexia, f65, c300, dslr) thats where I currently stand, this is my only monitor, it is a new setup i've purchased, I am confident issues will be resolved one day, annoying I do not know when though. I would probably purchase again if had the chance, but there are other options which look very enticing currently, would want to have a comparison with the small DP7 PRO HB when it is released .. Justin Besser

I had it running all day Friday, gen2.. Camera was set to 25p, So whatever it outputs on SDI, it was working fine.. Teradek was transmitting signal fine off SDI-2

Job specifically required a Sony 4k camera.. Initially was specced as f55, but due to firmware not having capability to shoot off speed at 4k yet had to change to f65.. Wasn't ideal.. Not menus were touched with regards to the SDI output, but I'll check and see the settings on Monday.. I'll give a rundown of how it goes if anyone is interested..

Cinetronic has been tested .. works fine out of both SDI ports ..