My Situation

[chris fawcett]

Hi Brian,

 

That was the original Flyer, and yes, 19 lbs was max. The LE's extending post called for slightly stronger arm springs. I doubt the present arm design will go further—the bones must be approaching their limits.

 

I find it wonderful that you heft a RED on your Flyer! Can we see a pic?

 

Fly safe,

 

Chris

[Mike Germond SOC]

The original Flyer maxes out at just under 19 lbs of camera weight (that's with 2 x IDXs on the sled), making it a bit light for a RED. The sled actually weighs only 5 lbs without batteries. The LE might differ slightly.

 

I have successfully flown a 25lb dumbell on my Flyer LE's stage with 2 IDX powercubes on the bottom. The arm was in the recommended range (just above horizontal). So either I have a freek arm, or Tiffen's rating does infact include the sled..

 

It's a great rig for the money. I paid for mine on the first Steadicam job I did, and had money left over to upgrade almost immediately. The only question the producer asked me before the shoot was "Is it a real Steadicam? I mean, does it have Steadicam written on it?" ;)

Chris

 

I 2nd Brian on the first part. I've done work for clients that have worked with old-school operators too, and they were overjoyed by the fact that I had a "color LCD! wow!" I haven't yet be questioned if it is "a real Steadicam" because I think people are mostly fascinated that the same job can be done with less equipment..

Edited December 10, 2009 by Mike Germond

[Kevin Andrews SOC]

I haven't yet be questioned if it is "a real Steadicam" because I think people are mostly fascinated that the same job can be done with less equipment..

 

 

And that's what is scaring the crap out of the veteran ops.

[Benjamin Joseph Corwin]

Hey Brian,

 

After looking at the photos, the "Nimblecam" looks like a beefed up Flyer. Does that mean that the Flyer is fully customizable? From my understanding, the Flyer's limit is right around 19 lbs., but as shown in the photos, the "Nimblecam" supports a 31 lb. RED camera. What is all invested in the rig to make this possible?

 

-Ben Corwin

 

Hi Ben:

 

My Nimblecam is a true hybrid--PRO top stage, post and vest; Tiffen gimbal, monitor and Flyer arm (modified to full-size socket block and armpost), old XCS monitor arm, MK-V junction box, custom yoke and lower rod system.

 

The RED picture shows a 31 lb combined camera and sled weight; Tiffen's rating of the Flyer's capacity doesn't include the sled which is around 11 pounds, I think. My sled is a couple of pounds heavier. That camera configuration just might make it on the Flyer arm. I used the PRO arm for that particular job. Since this is my 2nd sled I can "steal" whatever is necessary from the big rig for a given setup. Note that many of the components for the RED are distributed to the base of the rig which allows for better mass management--the stock Flyer would be tougher to work with in this regard because of its design. In general, my feeling is that the Flyer is not a good match for the RED as you can't often count on the appropriate parts to show up as Jess may have also mentioned.

 

Flyers are great for those who tend to use their own camera setups on almost everything they shoot, i.e. HVX with Letus or EX3 etc, cameras that fit comfortably on the payload. For someone who definitely wants to hang out their shingle as an operator, you should be prepared to upgrade as soon as it becomes a liability not to. Buying an older rig with the intention to upgrade parts is the time-honored way to do it; this works out great for those with a mechanical/electronic bent or have access to those who do. If you are used to buying things shiny and new, this could be a tough road--it's certainly a long one. Fortunately there are a lot of resources on the web to see what others have done.

 

Wow, Brian wasn't joking about there only being a few Flyer parts. I appreciate the reply. All of you are really helping me gain a better perspective of what the Flyer can and cannot do. You also brought up an interesting point about Flyers being great for those who use their own camera setups. I do own a Canon GL2 with several accessories and considered purchasing a pilot at one point, but I didn't want to limit myself to bigger cameras. In addition, I'm guessing the demand isn't too high for a GL2. At the least, I figure it will give me something to practice with.

[Benjamin Joseph Corwin]

Anyone have an opinion of what part of the country has the highest Steadicam demand?

[Benjamin Joseph Corwin]

Also, thank you all for your input and support. I am truly grateful for this forum and the people in it.

[Brian Freesh]

I find it wonderful that you heft a RED on your Flyer! Can we see a pic?

 

I don't have a pic of the Red, but here's the LT at ~24lbs. The BFD Rx is indeed on the bottom with no motor cable. I don't ever expect to get hired for an LT with this rig, and in fact I would refuse it so as not to put that stress on the gimbal. However, if I was to do it, I'd likely stick the Rx there and have a custom cable made.

 

 

proof the arm is taking the weight (and that my goatee really does get outta hand:

 

 

32.5lbs on the arm itself, sagging ever so slightly:

 

 

Again, that's a 2nd gen arm, right before the LE came out, so who knows, maybe it's got an LE's fixins?

 

I have successfully flown a 25lb dumbell on my Flyer LE's stage with 2 IDX powercubes on the bottom.

Well yeah, Mike, an LE. Though I still think your arm is above spec. |-)~

The LE's extending post called for slightly stronger arm springs.

 

I haven't yet be questioned if it is "a real Steadicam" because I think people are mostly fascinated that the same job can be done with less equipment..

 

 

And that's what is scaring the crap out of the veteran ops.

 

I don't agree with this, but maybe a veteran op will yet come prove you right. But from my perspective, Mike's statement is only true with cameras that will fit on the rig, and is indeedsimilar to some of the reactions I get. But I can count on one finger the number of 35mm film cameras I can fly (well... I s'pose I COULD fly an Eyemo...) and for HD I'm limited to prosumer, or stripped down ENG or Red (and now DSLR). All of the veteran ops I know usually work with much heavier set-ups than I can do on my rig and in a completely different markets than I am involved in (so far!). The only veterans that have anything to fear from me are ones using the same class of rig, if there are any. I suppose that depends how long it takes to be a veteran. But from the context of Mike's statement, i don't suppose we're talking about other Flyer owners. |-)~

 

Plus, even though cameras are getting lighter and lighter, 3D isn't passing into the night yet, and doing stereo mounting limits the cameras I can rig even more, not that I've done it yet....

 

My $0.04

Edited December 10, 2009 by Brian Freesh

[Eric Fletcher S.O.C.]

I haven't yet be questioned if it is "a real Steadicam" because I think people are mostly fascinated that the same job can be done with less equipment..

 

 

And that's what is scaring the crap out of the veteran ops.

 

 

LOL, No.

 

the same job can not be done with less gear, and certainly not without the experience.

 

Doing a TV series or Feature film cannot be compared to doing a low budget indy with a tiny prosumer HD camera. I'd love to see you fly a fully kitted out F23/F35/Genesis/Pana LW/Arricam LT with a smaller rig and "Less Equipment" You can't do it. Sure you might get it mounted up and maybe balanced but now let's see you do a move that is beyond the typical walk and talk I see you guys doing. Let's see you do something with a stop pull and a lens light all the while shooting something that tells the story.

 

You're not going to be able to do it. I know of a show where they were looking for a Steadicam operator and trying to do it on a budget, when production floated a guy by the DP and mentioned that he had a Clipper the DP damn near laughed his butt off since he knew the gear couldn't do the job (A HD show)

 

I don't show up with $200,000+ in gear because I like to haul it, I show up with that gear because it's what's needed to do the job.

[Mike Germond SOC]

Eric, I'm sorry but I think the context of my original statement is being blown out of proportion. I simply mean that these commercials/indys often don't need anything fancy. A Mini35 rig flys just as easily on the Flyer.

 

I dream of the day that my gear could support a fully loaded Pana/Arri setup (and don't have to look at Indy jobs). I also dream of the day where a "technical shot" is more than just a few tight 360's :lol: Until then, it's a gradual process of upgrading..

Edited December 10, 2009 by Mike Germond

[Erik Brul]

I simply cannot believe someone is comfortable while walking and running arround with $200,000 worth of gear.. is it even possible to get insurance for that and not paying a fortune per month / year ?

 

I also cannot believe that someone can buy that kind of expensive stuff without blinking a eye. What kind of loans are we talking about here or

did those people won the state lotery.. or did they do it the old way, start secondhand and upgrade step by step ?

What are the risks especially in these times to jump into the stabilizer market with budgets like that..

 

I have thought about the idea to restart more seriously in the local market, The Netherlands.

First, i think i know all the ops here. A simple google does the rest. Only in the Netherlands there are at least 10 serious ops with equipment of something

in total of like 1.5 million euros. The AV market is ofcourse small if you compare it with the US/UK but these 10 serious ops are enough to prevent me for even thinking about to do that big jump.

 

I´ve got about 4 requests per year for jobs which need a bigger rig then the previous Flyer (LE) and now the cute Pilot.. and even then, i pass

them to the other guys.

 

My humble advise for Benjamin:

 

- Start with the Flyer LE

- Start with the Bartech Follow Focus

- Start with the Redbyte

 

And starting working local and gain experience with nice studentfilms and corporates.

Within a year of even shorter you made enough money to sell the Flyer and upgrade to a bigger rig..

 

If there is not enough work, you can still sell the Flyer with a couple of hunders of max a 1000 dollars less in your pocket.

 

Just be carefull, enjoy the ride and fly save,

 

My 2 eurocents,

Erik

[JobScholtze]

I simply cannot believe someone is comfortable while walking and running arround with $200,000 worth of gear.. is it even possible to get insurance for that and not paying a fortune per month / year ?

 

I also cannot believe that someone can buy that kind of expensive stuff without blinking a eye. What kind of loans are we talking about here or

did those people won the state lotery.. or did they do it the old way, start secondhand and upgrade step by step ?

What are the risks especially in these times to jump into the stabilizer market with budgets like that..

 

I have thought about the idea to restart more seriously in the local market, The Netherlands.

First, i think i know all the ops here. A simple google does the rest. Only in the Netherlands there are at least 10 serious ops with equipment of something

in total of like 1.5 million euros. The AV market is ofcourse small if you compare it with the US/UK but these 10 serious ops are enough to prevent me for even thinking about to do that big jump.

 

I´ve got about 4 requests per year for jobs which need a bigger rig then the previous Flyer (LE) and now the cute Pilot.. and even then, i pass

them to the other guys.

 

My humble advise for Benjamin:

 

- Start with the Flyer LE

- Start with the Bartech Follow Focus

- Start with the Redbyte

 

And starting working local and gain experience with nice studentfilms and corporates.

Within a year of even shorter you made enough money to sell the Flyer and upgrade to a bigger rig..

 

If there is not enough work, you can still sell the Flyer with a couple of hunders of max a 1000 dollars less in your pocket.

 

Just be carefull, enjoy the ride and fly save,

 

My 2 eurocents,

Erik

 

As one of those 10 ops your talking about i think i need to chime in. Do we need such expensive gear? Yes we do. Why? Simple, if the client pays topdollar for you the expect you to show up with the right tools for the job. Sure you could fit a stripped down hd camera with primes on your flyer and do the walk and talk eric mentione. Now the dp ask you to run with an actor, or do some other crazy shit. The ac comes with another piece of equipment, or some other technical guy needs another piece of gear on the rig. There you are, trying to defend your rig to stay within the limits. Nah, the wont hire you again, for sure.

 

Consider the right tool for the job. If you are serius about your job, go for it, it called being a compagny. Taking risk, calculate till your getting crazy. I have been on a long road. Starting from a sk2 rig ( several ) always fighting the limits, a copycat, till the real deal. Costumizing a big rig, never have to worry about my tools. Whatever camera i need to fly, bring it on.

 

without blinking a eye

 

Thats not the thing. Its no fun to drop a shitload of cash for a rig. But thats the thing you will face in this industrie. Sure you can buy something cheap, but you always end up spending it twice before your happy with it. Go the short way and buy something decent for your line of work with a good view to your near future. A 200k rig dasnt make you a great op. But it sure helps. Btw, a full rig dasnt have to be 200k to start with. But you will find out that in the end you have spend it LOL.

 

About insurance, yes it costs a shitload of money each year. But i wouldnt want to take the risk to go bankrupt if my gear getting stolen or something else happends to it. Thats why most ops get a bit irritated if a young guy with a cheap rig takes your job and dont even get a decent rate out of it. meanwhile you invest and spend a lot of cash to be a proffesional. Sure, at the end the come back, but its still painfull.

 

If you still think its to risky for you, rent. Build up your client/reel etc. And be on set with the right tools. If you dont start to explore yourself, nothing will happen in the future. It all depends on yourself. Work for it, till you drop. I for sure had to work my ars off for the last 4 years. It didnt happen to me, it was solid hard work.

 

btw as you know, i have a full second set, so be my guest.

 

Greets

[Erik Brul]

Hey Job,

 

Well.. was i also talking about you ? ? ? .. yep, no suprise hahaha.. But my little story was more talking about both worlds, here and overseas

in the bigger markets. In my case, it´s simple realism, lack of (work)time, lack of money and do get me right.. i´m NOT complaining..

Sofar i´m comfortable in the small market.

 

ps1.. btw, i can remember you were total in love with that copycat for some time..(at least here ! ! )

ps2.. yep thnx for the offer, 2 serious rigs within 30km.. maybe in the future who knows :ph34r:

[JobScholtze]

ps1.. btw, i can remember you were total in love with that copycat for some time..(at least here ! ! )

At the time i could afford it i was happy with it. When i grew in preformance i was fighting the limits more and more. If i knew back in those days i think i would approch it different now

[Eric Fletcher S.O.C.]

I simply cannot believe someone is comfortable while walking and running arround with $200,000 worth of gear.. is it even possible to get insurance for that and not paying a fortune per month / year ?

 

I also cannot believe that someone can buy that kind of expensive stuff without blinking a eye. What kind of loans are we talking about here or

did those people won the state lotery.. or did they do it the old way, start secondhand and upgrade step by step ?

What are the risks especially in these times to jump into the stabilizer market with budgets like that..

 

 

I am very comfortable walking around with $200,000 worth of gear that I'm attaching $500,000 of Panavision gear to. It's kinda like Driving a $100,000 car or flying a $800,000 airplane. it's not that big of a deal, it's what I do for a living.

 

as for insuring it well that's around $2000/year and it's a cost of doing business, same for buying gear and upgrading it's part of being a pro.

 

I agree with you that the risks when starting out are huge and honestly look at the people who have just taken a workshop and now want to move to the most heavily saturated steadicam market in the world and think that they will be working all the time, and living the dream. It's simply not true. There are few jobs right now and PLENTY of operators.

[Brian Freesh]

There are few jobs right now and PLENTY of operators.

 

Yeah... just wait until the next large gathering of operators in the same place. If you don't see me there, most of you might not make it out. |-)~