Premium Members Mark Schlicher Posted August 9, 2009 Author Premium Members Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 "should" being the operative word... Alec, thanks for the suggestion. As soon as I can get free from a project I'm working on I plan to take the Garfield mount to a local grip house and check it out on their hi-hats and dolly mounts. In the meantime, I'm wondering if there are any folks out there who wouldn't mind grabbing a ruler and their vehicle mount, and giving me the measurements of the following: 1. total diameter (mine is 7") 2. diameter of the center raised ring on the underside (that nestles in the mitchell plate) (mine is 3 7/8") 3. distance from the center to the holes for the screw that engages in the keyway (mine is 3 3/16" oc) And oh, yeah, I may have a MSE MItchell hi-hat for sale cheap if anyone's interested.... Thanks. Mark, Cinema Products (the company that used to license the Steadicam name and manufacture them before they went under) sold that same vehicle mount in black. I believe Bob DeRose did as well. Regardless, all of them and the Hill version should be plug and play with any Mitchell mount. I suspect the problem is with your dolly riser.... errr, sorry, hi-hat. Buy a hi-hat from Filmtools and see if they work together. In the slim chance they don't, you should be able to return it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members RonBaldwin Posted August 9, 2009 Premium Members Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 hmmm. That MSE thing is strange, never seen one before. Looks like they just took a 6" riser and bolted it to some "base". If the only problem is the Hill mount spinning maybe you can tap some additional holes closer to the center. The Derose vehicle mount I bought from Pro (in '96?) looks just like that one. You could get it in several colors, mine is blue. rb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members nealnorton Posted August 9, 2009 Premium Members Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 Not only is that a riser, but I'll bet its a Fisher sized part. I've watched grips wrestling with mix and (not) match chapman and Fisher stuff for years. . . Sorry. Neal Norton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Sanjay Sami Posted August 10, 2009 Premium Members Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 hmmm. That MSE thing is strange, never seen one before. Looks like they just took a 6" riser and bolted it to some "base". rb It is not unusual to keep a short riser (usually 4 inch) permanently attached to a low hat on a movie. This is primarily done because when you fit a geared head on the high hat, the wheels or the operators fingers may scrape the ground for lack of clearance. Also if you want to add reduction gears, you will be severely restricted with positioning. So you keep one regular hi hat for fluid heads such as the Oconnor 2575 and a hi hat with a riser in case you need to pull out the Arrihead or Panahead. Also, I have come across several Mitchell style risers, hi hats etc that are a strange size. Some that are very undersize and some that are very oversize. Hope that helps Sanjay Sami Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Eric Fletcher S.O.C. Posted August 10, 2009 Premium Members Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 It is not unusual to keep a short riser (usually 4 inch) permanently attached to a low hat on a movie. Yes it is unusual. Why carry a low hat when you are "permanently" making it a hi-hat? You use a fluid head on a lo-hat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Sanjay Sami Posted August 10, 2009 Premium Members Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 Yes it is unusual. Why carry a low hat when you are "permanently" making it a hi-hat? You use a fluid head on a lo-hat One of each. Ready to go. I don't mean all grips do this. I don't, but I have seen it fairly often. Each to his own I guess. Sanjay Sami Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Mark Schlicher Posted September 2, 2009 Author Premium Members Report Share Posted September 2, 2009 Small update: Went to a local grip house and sure enough the MSE hi-hat diameter is smaller than anything they have. I emailed pics of the vehicle mount to Jerry Hill and he said it's definitely not one of his...he thinks its a DeRose or early CP version. So the guy who sold it to me must have been mistaken. I think I'm going to probably sell both the hi-hat and mount and start over fresh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Erlichman Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Yes, it's the DeRose plate that's the problem here, not the Matthews "Hi Hat (up for debate at a later time)". I've come across a few operators who have the same beasts. There's no internal plate / ring to stop the slippage. Would it be worth welding on a machined washer of sorts to accommodate? A sort of retaining ring. It may be frustrating as there's no "meat" for your plate to grab on the Hi Hat - just an outer 1/4" (also try putting Mitchell risers on a set of Ronford legs). You'll have more success on a differently machined Mitchell plate (ie on a dolly). I'm surprised there's still a keyway locating pin as they are generally removed for better socket block placement. On a side note, I've noticed that Arri increased the same ring on the ArriHead 2 so much so that my Cardellini Headlocks won't fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Mark Schlicher Posted September 3, 2009 Author Premium Members Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 Thanks. Re; the retaining ring idea, the grips I talked to suggested a similar idea...a "stepped" tiedown ring to nest inside the inner hole, with a rougher surface or edge for more "bite". Doesn't fully solve the problem with my particular Mitchell base but that problem is easily-enough solved by purchasing a different hi-hat. Please elaborate on removing the keyway locating pin. I'm not sure what you are describing as far as the upside of that.... Yes, it's the DeRose plate that's the problem here, not the Matthews "Hi Hat (up for debate at a later time)". I've come across a few operators who have the same beasts. There's no internal plate / ring to stop the slippage. Would it be worth welding on a machined washer of sorts to accommodate? A sort of retaining ring. It may be frustrating as there's no "meat" for your plate to grab on the Hi Hat - just an outer 1/4" (also try putting Mitchell risers on a set of Ronford legs). You'll have more success on a differently machined Mitchell plate (ie on a dolly). I'm surprised there's still a keyway locating pin as they are generally removed for better socket block placement. On a side note, I've noticed that Arri increased the same ring on the ArriHead 2 so much so that my Cardellini Headlocks won't fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Erlichman Posted September 3, 2009 Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 When dealing with a Mitchell plate that a) only has one keyway and B) could only be rigged one way it allowed the operator and grips to place the Garfield at the proper angle in relation to your operating (what if you were forced to operate goofy in a situation where you didn't want / need to). In some of the DeRose's I've used the "key" was an hex head screw and there were tapped holes every 10 degrees around the bottom of the plate, so you placed the screw closest to the angle required. Please elaborate on removing the keyway locating pin. I'm not sure what you are describing as far as the upside of that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Charles Papert Posted September 3, 2009 Premium Members Report Share Posted September 3, 2009 After years of moving that hex screw around on the Garfield to mate it to whatever orientation the Mitchell presented, I took the screw out and have never missed it since. The rig provides plenty of side-loaded torque on the mount, and assuming you have tightened it down appropriately, it seems virtually impossible to have it shift under load. I suppose for a really nutty high-speed ride I might replace it (I have the screw stowed topside in one of the holes) but for mounting to the dolly--no worries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Rabin Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 Hey Mark saw your post and we chatted awhile back on the Steadicam Mobile mount I rigged up...We just shot a Ferrari ad with it and it worked flawless...by the way nice website! I'll post the reel on vimeo and let you know if your interested. Hee's some pix of the rig Here is a link to the pictures: http://www.onthewaveproductions/steadicam/.../BehindRail.jpg http://www.onthewaveproductions/steadicam/...erLookClamp.jpg http://www.onthewaveproductions/steadicam/...StrappedIn2.jpg http://www.onthewaveproductions/steadicam/...essSafeFree.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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