Lowballing reaches an all-time low?

[Tomas Riuka]

I though i'll add something from a new operator's perspective...

 

Recently had a few enquiries to shoot music videos, zero budget of course... There's been quite a lot of work involved as 'producers' in both cases were persons who never had any experience in that, so I was the one to organize all the shoot. Ok, no problem with that, though in the end we didn't shoot first video because it was too late already for a winter shoot, in another case - guy decided this is gonna be shoot 'as it is'... no lights, nothing. I don't mind doing work and helping people who really does not have budget and most likely will not earn anything from what we will come up with, but it has to be something that i could include into my portfolio. For me, as a relatively new operator, it's important, though i don't see any reason doing things for free when it's not worth being on my reel.

 

Second to Oswal, you may really never know how a 'free' work will turn out in the future. Myself, i had a few zero budget short movies done when i needed help from the others. People agreed, we made the movie, and now we're friends and frequently work on same gigs, as there's a mutual understanding and trust.

 

Shortly, if you're a new operator - make sure your work will be worth being on your reel in the end of the day and be careful for producers, who in reality do have money, it's just the way they "earn" it, by doing work and not paying people.

 

Tomas

 

 

 

[John atkinson]

If you were available, and I, You, Would say you'd sign the contract in exchange for a high res digital copy of the footage you shot.

Also, Don't forget since the copyright laws have changed, Anything you shoot, whether it's your camera or not, and whether someone is paying you, all footage/pictures you shoot are instantly copyrighted to your name. For many years now whenever I sign a deal memo the wording is in there saying I turn over all copyright to the footage to the named producers.

 

I answered an ad on Mandy.com many many years ago. The folks were asking for a steadicam op in New York for a Japanese Music Video. I answered the ad with my resume. They answered right away with a storyboard of the specific steadicam shots they were looking for and the locations in NYC. I fed ex'd them a reel. They offered flight, baggage fees, a futon to sleep on in a 5th floor walk up apartment in NYC and food. I asked what format? They said 35mm Anamorphic, I said "I'm IN!" It was 4 days long, very tough, very fun and a great experience.These 2 Japanese producers (Kids) were so organized, it blew me away!They had spent every cent on gear, rental vans, insurance, etc.. everything except for cash for the crew and it turned out excellent. I had a DigiBeta of the footage I shot color corrected and at my door a week later. Then another week later the finished video. 2 months later they called again said they had another video, same format, same benefits package ( insurance, flight, baggage, futon, food), But this time, No Futon, a room nearby at a hotel, and only 3 days long, and $1000!, The third time was $2K and a 2 day video, each time the same level of professionalism and increasingly more benefits for the crew.

You never know what free work will lead to a great relationship.

 

Lowballing to me is defined as another person cutting their rate to compete to do a job. Someone offering no money to do a job is a job offer, which can be politely declined. I do gratis work occasionally for friends and good clients when it's mutually beneficial for both parties. I receive many of these calls from strangers, they all sound the same. I ask, why would I want to do your job for no money? Are you being paid? It usually ends there.

 

I know of two feature films in my area where the crew worked for little or no money, with the promise of back end pay out. Both won critical praise and made a lot of money. One one an academy award. The crew never got any of the promised deferred payment. I think everyone knows they would never see any money in these situations. It's really up to the individual and what the wish to do.

 

JA

[Dave Isern]

Defferred work is silly. Just tell them you will deffer doing the work until they decide to pay u. Doesn't sound like they're worth your time unless it's very close old friend.....

D

[RonBaldwin]

If you were available, and I, You, Would say you'd sign the contract in exchange for a high res digital copy of the footage you shot.

Also, Don't forget since the copyright laws have changed, Anything you shoot, whether it's your camera or not, and whether someone is paying you, all footage/pictures you shoot are instantly copyrighted to your name. For many years now whenever I sign a deal memo the wording is in there saying I turn over all copyright to the footage to the named producers.

 

I answered an ad on Mandy.com many many years ago. The folks were asking for a steadicam op in New York for a Japanese Music Video. I answered the ad with my resume. They answered right away with a storyboard of the specific steadicam shots they were looking for and the locations in NYC. I fed ex'd them a reel. They offered flight, baggage fees, a futon to sleep on in a 5th floor walk up apartment in NYC and food. I asked what format? They said 35mm Anamorphic, I said "I'm IN!" It was 4 days long, very tough, very fun and a great experience.These 2 Japanese producers (Kids) were so organized, it blew me away!They had spent every cent on gear, rental vans, insurance, etc.. everything except for cash for the crew and it turned out excellent. I had a DigiBeta of the footage I shot color corrected and at my door a week later. Then another week later the finished video. 2 months later they called again said they had another video, same format, same benefits package ( insurance, flight, baggage, futon, food), But this time, No Futon, a room nearby at a hotel, and only 3 days long, and $1000!, The third time was $2K and a 2 day video, each time the same level of professionalism and increasingly more benefits for the crew.

You never know what free work will lead to a great relationship.

 

Lowballing to me is defined as another person cutting their rate to compete to do a job. Someone offering no money to do a job is a job offer, which can be politely declined. I do gratis work occasionally for friends and good clients when it's mutually beneficial for both parties. I receive many of these calls from strangers, they all sound the same. I ask, why would I want to do your job for no money? Are you being paid? It usually ends there.

 

I know of two feature films in my area where the crew worked for little or no money, with the promise of back end pay out. Both won critical praise and made a lot of money. One one an academy award. The crew never got any of the promised deferred payment. I think everyone knows they would never see any money in these situations. It's really up to the individual and what the wish to do.

 

JA

 

a good point -- it is a HUGE problem and ops not communicating with each other is one of the causes. I might, say for example, turn down an show offering scale as a combo op/steadi rate only to find out soon after that not only did someone take it, but it is often a very experiences op that really should know better.

 

it's a producers market with so many knuckleheads out there who don't value their time and skills. Wrecks it for everyone.

[Rob Vuona SOC]

I just watched this type of lowballing thing happen to two of my friends and for what its worth whoever takes a steadicam gig, experienced or not for $400 for gear and a 10 hr day is a complete tool and I'm not talking about a steadicam for small cameras either.

 

I could go on and on about this but bottom line, like Rich said and I have said it before, communication is key, talk to your fellow operators and we can all work together to keep the skill level and payment equal

 

I can speak from experience and many of the operators on this forum have contacted me regarding this and it always worked out for them

 

Communicate you guys that think doing a gig for $400 including your gear is a good deal, wake up and stop shooting holes in our lively hood.

 

JMTC