Tilt stage for Pro/MKV?

[Jess Haas SOC]

Did he copy the design or the concept? His looks as if it will not keep balance as well as the Tiffen one would as it is designed a bit differently.

 

What exactly does the patent cover? Does it cover the whole concept of adding a tilt mechanism to a steadicam or simply a particular way of accomplishing the tilt?

 

Just wanting to be clear on what would violate your rights so I don't buy any products that do. I don't necessarily feel an obligation to refrain from buying any device with a tilt mechanism as I have a low mode bracket with integral tilt functionality sitting here in front of me that predates your company's patents. It is even possible to use it on the top stage to provide tilt in non low mode situations.

 

~Jess

[Bryan Trieb]

Just curious...... anyone know if the Betz plate is compatible with the XCS Ultimate?

 

 

 

Thanks!

Bryan

[Benjamin Treplin]

Bryan,

 

The Betz tilt plate is NOT compatible with the regular Ultimate camera platform.

 

You could mount the tilt plate to a XCS camera dovetail and insert the plate into the platform and utilize a catgriller on top of the tiltplate. But this will ad more than 1.7 inch to the sled length and ad lot more weight to the setup.

 

Best

[Jerry Holway]

Did he copy the design or the concept? His looks as if it will not keep balance as well as the Tiffen one would as it is designed a bit differently.

 

What exactly does the patent cover? Does it cover the whole concept of adding a tilt mechanism to a steadicam or simply a particular way of accomplishing the tilt?

 

Just wanting to be clear on what would violate your rights so I don't buy any products that do. I don't necessarily feel an obligation to refrain from buying any device with a tilt mechanism as I have a low mode bracket with integral tilt functionality sitting here in front of me that predates your company's patents. It is even possible to use it on the top stage to provide tilt in non low mode situations.

 

~Jess

 

Jess-

 

Alas, if you want to be technical, you need to read the patent to know what is claimed. Not every aspect of a patented item (arm, sled, tilt head, etc.) is protected, just some things.

 

Which things and the language is very critical; hence there are specialized, expensive lawyers to write patents and others to read and challenge them if they see fit. Patents are hard to get - the patent examiners in each country are very skilled and aware of what's come before. If someone makes the effort to get a patent, he is under no obligation to tell someone else how to get around the patent. It's enough trouble to come up with the idea and pay the bills.

 

Of course, as you say, there are and have been tilt plates before the integral tilt head, just as there were and are tilting heads that preserve the camera's center of balance (almost all remote heads are built this way).

 

What's unique (and therefore patentable and in this case patented), is basically the integral nature of the tilt head that keeps it small and light, preserves the average camera's c.g., does not add a lot of distance between the gimbal and the stage, etc. - all things critical for a tilting head for a Steadicam. Copies of this concept may or may not technically violate the patent ? it's subject of patent law, and again, I am NOT remotely qualified to comment on that.

 

What is clear to me however, is that this is a very small community, and if we as consumers willfully buy something that was invented by one party but willfully copied by another, then we are ultimately destroying future advancements.

 

George Paddock's arm, for instance, was very carefully and honorably designed (and well designed) to avoid Garrett's arm patents, and that is how it should be done. If someone buys a rip-off of his arm, George's considerable efforts are for nought, and his incentive to innovate disappears. They guy who makes the cheaper rip off has no engineering or thought or risk costs to offset (and he also often misses the critical bits... he didn't do the engineering to testing to understand what's warranted, how a part is specified or what the tolerances are, etc.). Understand this thing about risk - it's possible George could have spent a small fortune trying to come up with an arm and it might not have worked well enough to justify the effort, i.e., generate sales. The copier only copies something that is already proven to be of value. No risk. Who pays for that?

 

I believe - in my humble opinion, that especially in the small market of the Steadicam world, being respectful of other manufacturer's innovations - whether patented or not - is the way business should be done. There's just not enough volume (money) to support the army of patent lawyers required to duke every thing out in court - it would just raise the cost of every rig.

 

So, again in my humble opinion, if you want to buy an integral tilt head, it's clear how to get one. If you don't like that option (there are other reasons to buy or not buy a rig), don't go the rip-off route, and don't get all technical unless you want to do the hard research to discover the technicalities.

 

FYI, in the case of the integral tilt head, IMHO it can't be a modular part inserted willy-nilly between the stage and the post... there are too many design compromises with the existing stages. With the U2 and Clippers and Archers, the entire stages and and tiling heads were totally redesigned ? made more integral ? for better performance and fewer compromises.

 

Jerry

[Jerry Holway]

Just so everyone understands my personal position on this: Christian Betz saw my prototype (he was working for Chroziel at the time, a Steadicam dealer) and copied it. Whether technically he is in violation of patents is the subject of lawyers and moral weaseling.

 

Jerry

[Brandon Zachary]

So...Betz sells Tiffen and PRO gear as well as their own? On the Betz website they have everything listed from a PRO sled, arm, and vest to Tiffen's Ultra 2, Flyer, Pilot, etc. I'm confused.

[Jess Haas SOC]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. The main motivation for my question was the fact that I have seen lots of bashing of non Tiffen tilt plates going on by people who seem to think that any method of tilting the camera that isn't made by Tiffen is illegal and immoral which I don't really believe to be true. I haven't really taken the time to research your patent as it is not that pressing of an issue to me.

 

I do agree that what he did was not nice. I don't have any plans to purchase his tilt plate, although I had considered it since Tiffen refuses to sell just the tilting top stage and they didn't have a rig in the lineup that was what I wanted. The 324 comes rather close so that will most likely become my sled in the future. I do agree with supporting innovation, although if someone refuses to make a product that fits my needs while another will I don't see a moral dilemma with going with the later.

 

Definitely keep up the good work and don't let the copycats get you down. Your tilting top stage is expertly designed and from what I have seen seems to be much better than the copy.

 

~Jess

[Jerry Holway]

the fact that I have seen lots of bashing of non Tiffen tilt plates going on by people who seem to think that any method of tilting the camera that isn't made by Tiffen is illegal and immoral which I don't really believe to be true.

 

although I had considered it since Tiffen refuses to sell just the tilting top stage

~Jess

 

Just to be even more clear, one of the reasons that I (and perhaps Tiffen) refuse to make or sell the tilt head as a universal accessory is its integral nature; there would be too many compromises with the majority of stages/donkey boxes on the market. The result would be a product few people wanted. There are, of course, other reasons to not to sell a patented idea a la carte.

 

I totally agree with your other point, that most tilting things are not even remotely "illegal and immoral." I owned at least two of the others prior to having the integral tilt head, and promoted the ideas in The Steadicam Letter, (issues now available at the Steadicam Guild website).

 

Regardless, the lawyers can sort out the fine details when it's in someone's interest to do so, and when we are aware of a situation, we can choose to buy (or sell) from an informed perspective.

 

Misinformation and ignorance (and I'm often guilty of both) are not good; so thanks for helping to clarify this.

 

Jerry