Guys! Enough with saying yes to the low rates

[Alfeo Dixon SOC]

I too like the idea of a private forum. I suggest that it become a professional forum were we can discus rates and concerns professionally. That being said, if you are not a member of the SOA, you should not be allowed to the forum... Its about and for professionals.

[Nicholas Davidoff]

I too like the idea of a private forum. I suggest that it become a professional forum were we can discus rates and concerns professionally. That being said, if you are not a member of the SOA, you should not be allowed to the forum... Its about and for professionals.

 

I'd be very supportive of this idea as well. A private forum for working professionals who make their primary living as camera and/or steadicam operators. Although I wouldn't agree with the SOA membership criteria. Anybody can join the SOA with a few mouse clicks. I was in the SOA the day I got my first rig, it's not much of a filter. I would propose some sort of sponsored entry. Meaning everybody in the private forum needs to be sponsored in by three other operators who can all certify that the new member meets the membership criteria. As Alfeo said, this private arena would allow working professionals to discuss important matters in private like minimum rate scales, working and dealmaking guidelines and much more. It might also be an all important step toward some type of ORGANIZED UNITY within the steadicam community which is currently NON-EXISTENT.

 

Although I predict there will be a lot of discussion about this but no action because I've been watching this cycle repeat itself over the last few years with zero results.

[RonBaldwin]

if you are not a member of the SOA, you should not be allowed to the forum... Its about and for professionals.

 

looks like I am out. I am neither a member nor a professional.

[Nicholas Davidoff]

if you are not a member of the SOA, you should not be allowed to the forum... Its about and for professionals.

 

looks like I am out. I am neither a member nor a professional.

 

... And that's how these rate discussions end gentlemen. With a joke and a fizzle.

 

Perfect way to underline my point.

[William Demeritt]

I would propose some sort of sponsored entry. Meaning everybody in the private forum needs to be sponsored in by three other operators who can all certify that the new member meets the membership criteria.

 

I think that sounds like a proper idea.

[Benjamin Treplin]

What happend to Steadicam Guild mailing list?

[Charles Papert]

Well, so then let's be neither flippant nor self-defeating about this. Obviously it's going to require setting up a new, invitation only forum; the question is, who has the time to do it. I'll bet that participants would be willing to pay into it which would help a lot. I imagine someone has a girlfriend or spouse or friend who is out of work and has the skills to do it (they'd have to be able to maintain/administer it long-term). Start putting on your thinking caps, fellas...

[James Davis]

Well, so then let's be neither flippant nor self-defeating about this. Obviously it's going to require setting up a new, invitation only forum; the question is, who has the time to do it. I'll bet that participants would be willing to pay into it which would help a lot. I imagine someone has a girlfriend or spouse or friend who is out of work and has the skills to do it (they'd have to be able to maintain/administer it long-term). Start putting on your thinking caps, fellas...

 

My business partner could put something together quite easily, what sort of thing you looking for, how complex, you want it independent of this website?

[Nicholas Davidoff]

Well, so then let's be neither flippant nor self-defeating about this. Obviously it's going to require setting up a new, invitation only forum; the question is, who has the time to do it. I'll bet that participants would be willing to pay into it which would help a lot. I imagine someone has a girlfriend or spouse or friend who is out of work and has the skills to do it (they'd have to be able to maintain/administer it long-term). Start putting on your thinking caps, fellas...

 

I would be happy to pay into something like this, especially if I felt it's making a difference to our industry.

[RonBaldwin]

if you are not a member of the SOA, you should not be allowed to the forum... Its about and for professionals.

 

looks like I am out. I am neither a member nor a professional.

 

... And that's how these rate discussions end gentlemen. With a joke and a fizzle.

 

Perfect way to underline my point.

 

Nick, you cranky bastard, mellow out. You don't think being a member of the SOA is any different than being a member here? How does that make one a professional?

 

To me (and many a "professional") having a sense of humor about oneself and not taking it all too seriously is a needed/desired trait. When was the last time you hung out with a bunch of "professionals" from any trade/skill let alone ours? Yes there is serous discussion, but a lot of light hearted ribbing.

 

So, while I am temprarily serious, and before I start telling more fart jokes, what have you been getting/fighting for? What have you turned down recently because it was too low or there was no ins cert?

 

Let's start this discussion quick. I feel a Lisagav comment coming on.

[David Allen Grove]

Benjamin, as far as the SG Mailing list goes, there were issues with it, so in the best interest for everyone, we dumped it.

 

The Steadicam Guild had a password protected online forum a few years ago.

Only those who had passwords (members of the Steadicam Guild) could read or post. It was a perfect place to discuss private matters.

A little more than 1/2 the members took the time to create their forum account. Very few posted and even fewer posted regularly... 3 or 4 people tops?

Some thought it was not needed because it was a duplication of this forum. Understandable I suppose at the time but times, it appears, have changed.

 

The format was the same as the original Steadicam Forum and it cost $100/year (If memory serves)

 

After a year we decided not enough people were posting, so we decided not to renew.

 

If Steadicam Guild members want their own closed, password protected forum and actually use it, I would be more than willing to set it up again.

 

 

"If it's a good idea, I'm for it. If it's a bad idea, I'm against it" - Phil Hartman playing Bill Clinton

[Nicholas Davidoff]

I don't mean to be a sourpuss Ron. I just think there's a time for laughs and a time for focus. I've been following these threads since I started operating a few years ago. And I've been watching rates drop and producers take advantage of us and I've been seeing and reading ALOT of complaining and I don't see anybody doing anything pro-active to bring about some change. I'd be happy to contribute my time and energy and resources if there is something that can be done. It's great that we can poke fun at ourselves and eachother but when it comes to serious subject matter such as this, comedy doesn't help much. When you're trying to have a discussion about how we can band together and protect the integrity of our craft, I think it's important to focus on results. Maybe that's why all these years there haven't been any results. Because it's impossible to get a group together and have a formal business discussion about the state of our industry. And I'm not talking about a Saturday night beer-fest at Jumbo's. Although that would be a fine time, unfortunately the two don't mix. Anyway, a discussion is in the works. Certain people might be PM'd. If you're interested, PM me. But this discussion should take place face to face, in private and not as a series of posts on this forum.

 

As far as jobs go, without going into specifics, I've turned down a few low paying offers lately. I did this for no reason other than to (try to) protect our values. But I'm realizing that it was a wasted effort. Did I make a point or teach anybody a lesson? I highly doubt it. The producers easily found somebody else within a few hours. Was the operator they got inferior to me? Was the work crappy? Maybe, maybe not. These low budget producers and directors are so clueless they may never know the difference. The point is there is no unity. What's the end result of me turning down a low rate gig knowing that there is nobody backing me up? For the simple reason that there are no official guidelines. If there are, somebody please let me know. And this applies to all work across the industry, big and small.

 

This thread has turned to the subject of a private forum. Which is probably a good idea but it's only a small element of what we need to do if we want to "fix" things. Add an official set of guidelines all operators agree on and a generous helping of Lisigav and we might be on our way. Until then, it's every man for himself and may the best men win. I'm busy and working and fine with the way things are. I just love our industry and respect my fellow operators and I'd like to do what I can to make things better.

[JobScholtze]

The "guild" forum wont work, as we dont reach most ops/ ( not anyone can join, correct? )

Best thing is to ask our mods and tim to make us a private section. But what are the criteria to get into that part? Big rigs only?

Or soa member? Or how may years blablabla? Yes, get the lisagav, your gonna need lots of it ;-)

[Rob Ruscher]

I am new at Steadicam and coming from working with a Glidecam for the past couple of years. Figured a rates topic would be a good place for my first post on this forum.

 

I am curious on where I should start out for rates. I'll be mostly flying a DSLR and EX3 on either a Scout or Pilot. I don't have wireless focus or a fancy monitor (just a basic 5"). I don't think my skills nor equipment justify a large rate and at the same time I don't want to undercut the field. I was thinking of charging my camera operator rate or possibly DP rate but wanted to get some thoughts on how to come up with my rate. I am based in Washington, DC (I realize location is a factor).

 

Feel free to PM instead of publicly posting. Looking forward to learning a lot from this forum and continuing my skills.

 

Best,

[Alan Rencher]

The best thing to do is make friends with other local ops. Find their websites and email them. Pick their brains, and discuss everything you can with them. If you haven't had any training, try asking one of them if they'll give you a class. That's really the best way.