My Situation

[Kevin Andrews SOC]

How is the EFP for broadcast?

 

Use it all the time for broadcast work. Added an LCD and forward weights for DB. Also new docking rings since the original design had it docking on the gimbal.

 

Love the fact that I can upgrade to pro components whenever I feel the need.

 

The top stage is really crappy as Eric lovingly mentioned. Has the possibility of vibration and cannot adjust fore/aft while locked. A donkey box 2 from pro screws right on to replace it.

 

I also have that retro-happiness that comes from using the rig featured in the now "famous dvd"

[Eric Fletcher S.O.C.]

How is the EFP for broadcast?

 

Use it all the time for broadcast work. Added an LCD and forward weights for DB. Also new docking rings since the original design had it docking on the gimbal.

 

Love the fact that I can upgrade to pro components whenever I feel the need.

 

The top stage is really crappy as Eric lovingly mentioned. Has the possibility of vibration and cannot adjust fore/aft while locked. A donkey box 2 from pro screws right on to replace it.

 

I also have that retro-happiness that comes from using the rig featured in the now "famous dvd"

 

 

so it has a 1.5" center post. you are better off buying a used Pro 1 or Pro 2 than an EFP. in the end it's far to expensive to upgrade the EFP and what you can upgrade is limited, you can only do the gimbal and topstage, not the post or the battery base. Plus the pro is already wired for 24volts....

 

the EFP is a dead end rig

[Alec Jarnagin SOC]

"so it has a 1.5" center post. you are better off buying a used Pro 1 or Pro 2 than an EFP. in the end it's far to expensive to upgrade the EFP and what you can upgrade is limited, you can only do the gimbal and topstage, not the post or the battery base. Plus the pro is already wired for 24volts....

 

the EFP is a dead end rig"

 

In the old days, the EFP was a looker because you could upgrade it in all sorts of ways, but as Eric has subtly suggested, there are more modern options now. Since the PRO 2 is still a current rig, it can be expensive (although, you should look because it has the wonderful AB mount and there are too many of us out of work). The PRO 1 is a great rig and a true workhorse. The batteries can't really hold up to modern HD loads, but it is light years ahead of the EFP and has come down enough in price that it may be the best "value" on the market today. Most will already have a real top stage, gimbal, arm, and vest that many EFPs will not.

[Charles Papert]

you can only do the gimbal and topstage, not the post or the battery base.

 

Battery base upgrade via Hugo:

 

http://steadyrig.com/Steadyrig%20Battery%20Hanger.htm

 

(top pix are of the EFP version)

[Eric Fletcher S.O.C.]

you can only do the gimbal and topstage, not the post or the battery base.

 

Battery base upgrade via Hugo:

 

http://steadyrig.com/Steadyrig%20Battery%20Hanger.htm

 

(top pix are of the EFP version)

 

 

I stand corrected. Problem is in the end by the time you upgrade the EFP you've spent more than a Used Pro 1 or 2 and still have that wet noodle center post

[Markus Rave]

And to piggy back of of Kevin's last point..

 

You're almost better off starting with something like a Flyer LE. I think that the Pilot and Flyer rigs are the "great revealer" solution that you can pour on any operator and see what their true skill and fundamentals look like. You can hide bad operating in the inertia of a larger rig, but the Flyer leaves nothing to hide. If you get good on a Flyer, you WILL be good on a bigger rig. Not to mention run a lesser risk of injury down the road.

 

I can´t really see the point of your statement. The rigs you mention won´t be able to carry a well equipped videocamera like a DVW700 or HDCAM. What should be the reason to invest into a rig that might need replacement on your first job?

Your second point is obvious. A heavy rig has more inertia than a smaller rig. I incourage you to think over your conclusion. You will never hide bad operating no matter what rig or camera. And you will have to improve your expertise on every new rig you fly. Keep in mind that it is a big difference to fly 65lbs. for the whole day instead of a Canon XL1. And you won´t be good right from the start.

[Mike Germond SOC]

Markus, my point is that an F900 or F1500 will behave a lot differently on a Flyer LE than it would on a Clipper or even an Archer. I'm talking about common setups that he would be using early in his career that are supported by multiple rigs across the board.

 

Try pulling off some of the more technical moves that you've done with your rig, but on the Flyer...then get back to me. It's a lot more difficult to achieve the same result, trust me.

Edited December 9, 2009 by Mike Germond

[Brian Freesh]

Markus, I think Mike is basically saying you need a lighter touch with a lighter rig/set-up. I will back that point having operated roughly equally with a Flyer and an Ultra. Thus, if you start with a flyer and get good at handling it, when you move to a larger rig with more inertia, you will be even less likely to introduce unwanted motion. I agree with that as well.

 

However, Mike, I agree with Markus that bad operating is bad operating, and there's plenty more to it than your touch on the gimbal. And a heavier rig is a heavier rig. If you're used to carrying 30-40 lbs around, 60-70 (or more) will really surprise ya. Plus there is the issue of what you'll be able to fly, as you and I know too well (and as we both know they tempt us with the arms safely taking more than the gimbal!). So if $30k is the limit, I don't see why he should settle for a Flyer.

 

I'm not as anti-EFP as Eric, probably just because having one would mean heavier cameras for me, but he's completely right that considering bang for buck, used Pro rigs are probably the best bet. Now, if I can only trip over a few thousand dollars somewhere....

[Benjamin Joseph Corwin]

Hey everyone!

 

Thanks for all the replies! I had no idea that there would be this big of a response. I read each and every one of your comments and it seems like there are several people suggesting the Flyer LE to start out. At first, it was my same thought to start out with a Flyer until Steve Fracol, my Steadicam teacher, told me that there wasn't any money to be made with a Flyer. He also told me that if I am seriously considering Steadicam as a career, which I am, I should invest in a better rig. Even with that being said, I still feel an urgency to start practicing as soon as possible and I wouldn't be able to buy a 20-30K Steadicam for several years. With that being said, do you think that Steve Fracol was wrong in saying that there is no money to be made with a Flyer? Also, if I were to get a Flyer, what would be the resell value? Would I be losing money or would it be worth it for the practice? Thanks!

 

-Ben Corwin

[Mike Germond SOC]

Ask Charles Papert about his Flyer ;)

 

I get full rate on projects with my Flyer LE...commercials, concerts, live tv

 

Where there's a will, there's a way..

[Brian Freesh]

Ask Charles Papert about his Flyer ;)

 

Well, "Nimblecam"

 

Only some of it is a Flyer: http://gallery.me.com/chupap#100255

 

I don't know what the market is in Dayton, but if you're gonna be there for a while, you should look into that. If you're doing indy film stuff, I doubt there's much in the way of anything above prosumer camera level. But if you get into broadcast stuff you may need more than an LE.

 

When I bought my Flyer, it was a compromise of affordability and usefulness. I wanted something I could afford to practice with as much as I desired, but was also useful enough to get gigs here and there (i had a full time job at the time). Anything with a smaller weight limit would have been more affordable, but not as useful for gigs. Anything with a larger weight limit was more useful but no longer affordable. In LA, I have found that all too much of the indy film crowd is shooting on cameras I can easily fly, but I would have been in trouble with a smaller rig. Now it's just a matter of them paying reasonably (if not well) if anything at all!

 

If you only want something to practice with for now, I might even go down to a Pilot. Best rig in it's class, lower cost than the Flyer so if you're not getting gigs it hurts less, and you'll really get that light touch. If you want, you could start looking into things like wedding videos and such. Heck, with the HD DSLRs you may yet get music videos and the like, and all for a lower cost.

 

I'd imagine you could do pretty well re-selling the Flyer, which has always been my back-up plan in case of utter failure, or as a way of making a down payment on a big rig. But, you could also keep it as a lightweight rig, such as Charles' Nimblecam. This is ultimately what I hope to do with mine.

[Mike Germond SOC]

I think flying broadcast cameras is sometimes easier than flying these stupid Mini35 cinema packages! The one positive being that an EX1 with a Letus, fixed lens, and matte box is such a long setup that it gives you inerta you thought you'd never feel in a Flyer.

 

Terry West can do a killer lower spar upgrade for Flyer users. He cuts the monitor cable and puts an 8pin LEMO on it, then fabricates a breakout box that mounts on the spar allowing you any amount of extra power and video outputs you could want. I contemplated having him put a BNC, P-Tap, and 4pin Hirose (for my transmitter). Any Tally or PGM feed for live work would have to travel outside the post.

 

Like I said, where there's a will there's a way..

[Steve Fracol SOC]

Hello All,

 

Steve Fracol here...

 

I am very sorry that Ben took what I said about the Flyer the way he did. What I meant and should have clarified is that your not likely going to end up on a big feature or TV show with a Flyer thus not making that level of money. When I said no money I just meant not at the level a big rig rents for, etc. My bad. I know you can make a living with a Flyer as many, many people are. I am sorry if any of you were offended. That was not my intention at all. Poor choice of words on my part. I forget how people that are not so familiar with our equipment take things so literal. I also agree the Flyer is a decent rig to learn and train on but because I prefer larger rigs and larger cameras it was my opinion and preference to suggest an EFP. Something a little larger, etc. I have found that the smaller rigs overall to be much harder to do quality work with...at least for me and probably because I rarely fly a small rig with a little camera.

 

And to further the EFP thing, I have always felt that as a starter rig it is a decent choice. Can handle small or larger cameras and easily modified. Yeah...I know all about what everyone stated here about the EFP but dollar for dollar you can still do some nice work with an EFP for the price. I modified mine for not much money at all back in the day and it served me very well. Is a PRO 1 or 2 a better choice...sure if you have the money. Money is an issue to the new guys...thus making my choice for a suggestion an EFP then modify it. I guess it was cheaper and easier for me to modify because I can do about 80% of it myself and I also did not really factor that into the equation.

 

Sorry to disturb the force...did not mean to.

 

Best intentions intended...

 

Steve

[Jess Haas SOC]

I would say that Steve is right in that it will be very difficult to make money with a Flyer as the size of projects you are likely to be on will not be looking to pay anywhere near a reasonable rate. What the Flyer will do is give you a rig that you can practice with and allow you to get some experience on set with. Those gigs that can't pay a reasonable rate will most likely be the same gigs you start out with regardless of what rig you have as you need to get experience somewhere.

 

The main problem with the Flyer is going to always be having to ask what what camera and accessories very first thing as your ability to do the job will depend on that. The camera that is going to really give you problems is the Red. You will run into it a lot in the low budget market and while you can fly it stripped down on a Flyer on low budget jobs they never seem to have the correct accessories to fly it stripped down. In my experience even when I am told we will be recording to CF cards for one reason or another we always seem to end up on the harddrive. They also never seem to have a clip on matte box or a good method of mounting their matte box as a lot of people seem to only have the Red shoulder pad and the long Red steel 19mm rods.

 

As far as ENG cameras go you will be having a lot of the same problems as with the Red in terms of having to make sure that they are as stripped down as possible and being in trouble if they want to add much in the way of accessories.

 

The Flyer is a good rig and if you can't afford anything better in the near future I would say it is a good option as you are going to need some practice before you are good enough to take bigger jobs anyway. You are also going to need accessories such as a wireless follow focus which you will be able to use with a bigger rig when you move on up. Just don't expect to be able to make a good living with it unless you have particular clients in mind.

 

~Jess

[Benjamin Joseph Corwin]

Ask Charles Papert about his Flyer ;)

 

Well, "Nimblecam"

 

Only some of it is a Flyer: http://gallery.me.com/chupap#100255

 

I don't know what the market is in Dayton, but if you're gonna be there for a while, you should look into that. If you're doing indy film stuff, I doubt there's much in the way of anything above prosumer camera level. But if you get into broadcast stuff you may need more than an LE.

 

When I bought my Flyer, it was a compromise of affordability and usefulness. I wanted something I could afford to practice with as much as I desired, but was also useful enough to get gigs here and there (i had a full time job at the time). Anything with a smaller weight limit would have been more affordable, but not as useful for gigs. Anything with a larger weight limit was more useful but no longer affordable. In LA, I have found that all too much of the indy film crowd is shooting on cameras I can easily fly, but I would have been in trouble with a smaller rig. Now it's just a matter of them paying reasonably (if not well) if anything at all!

 

If you only want something to practice with for now, I might even go down to a Pilot. Best rig in it's class, lower cost than the Flyer so if you're not getting gigs it hurts less, and you'll really get that light touch. If you want, you could start looking into things like wedding videos and such. Heck, with the HD DSLRs you may yet get music videos and the like, and all for a lower cost.

 

I'd imagine you could do pretty well re-selling the Flyer, which has always been my back-up plan in case of utter failure, or as a way of making a down payment on a big rig. But, you could also keep it as a lightweight rig, such as Charles' Nimblecam. This is ultimately what I hope to do with mine.

 

 

Hey Brian,

 

Thanks for the post. I wanted to make sure to mention that I am not staying in Dayton for long. I am planning on moving to L.A. in the summer specifically in the "La Brea" area. I am not expecting to find any work around here. Also, my goal is that I will find some sort of work if I get a Steadicam. So far that looks like getting a Flyer or better.

 

After looking at the photos, the "Nimblecam" looks like a beefed up Flyer. Does that mean that the Flyer is fully customizable? From my understanding, the Flyer's limit is right around 19 lbs., but as shown in the photos, the "Nimblecam" supports a 31 lb. RED camera. What is all invested in the rig to make this possible?

 

 

-Ben Corwin