My Situation

[Andrew Stone]

Terry West can do a killer lower spar upgrade for Flyer users. He cuts the monitor cable and puts an 8pin LEMO on it, then fabricates a breakout box that mounts on the spar allowing you any amount of extra power and video outputs you could want. I contemplated having him put a BNC, P-Tap, and 4pin Hirose (for my transmitter). Any Tally or PGM feed for live work would have to travel outside the post.

 

Mike can you either post up or PM/email me Terry West's contact info. Thanks!

 

-Andrew

[Benjamin Joseph Corwin]

Hello All,

 

Steve Fracol here...

 

I am very sorry that Ben took what I said about the Flyer the way he did. What I meant and should have clarified is that your not likely going to end up on a big feature or TV show with a Flyer thus not making that level of money. When I said no money I just meant not at the level a big rig rents for, etc. My bad. I know you can make a living with a Flyer as many, many people are. I am sorry if any of you were offended. That was not my intention at all. Poor choice of words on my part. I forget how people that are not so familiar with our equipment take things so literal. I also agree the Flyer is a decent rig to learn and train on but because I prefer larger rigs and larger cameras it was my opinion and preference to suggest an EFP. Something a little larger, etc. I have found that the smaller rigs overall to be much harder to do quality work with...at least for me and probably because I rarely fly a small rig with a little camera.

 

And to further the EFP thing, I have always felt that as a starter rig it is a decent choice. Can handle small or larger cameras and easily modified. Yeah...I know all about what everyone stated here about the EFP but dollar for dollar you can still do some nice work with an EFP for the price. I modified mine for not much money at all back in the day and it served me very well. Is a PRO 1 or 2 a better choice...sure if you have the money. Money is an issue to the new guys...thus making my choice for a suggestion an EFP then modify it. I guess it was cheaper and easier for me to modify because I can do about 80% of it myself and I also did not really factor that into the equation.

 

Sorry to disturb the force...did not mean to.

 

Best intentions intended...

 

Steve

 

Hi Mr. Fracol,

 

Sorry about the miscommunication. Leave it up to the new guy to stir things up....

 

-Ben C.

[Benjamin Joseph Corwin]

I would say that Steve is right in that it will be very difficult to make money with a Flyer as the size of projects you are likely to be on will not be looking to pay anywhere near a reasonable rate. What the Flyer will do is give you a rig that you can practice with and allow you to get some experience on set with. Those gigs that can't pay a reasonable rate will most likely be the same gigs you start out with regardless of what rig you have as you need to get experience somewhere.

 

The main problem with the Flyer is going to always be having to ask what what camera and accessories very first thing as your ability to do the job will depend on that. The camera that is going to really give you problems is the Red. You will run into it a lot in the low budget market and while you can fly it stripped down on a Flyer on low budget jobs they never seem to have the correct accessories to fly it stripped down. In my experience even when I am told we will be recording to CF cards for one reason or another we always seem to end up on the harddrive. They also never seem to have a clip on matte box or a good method of mounting their matte box as a lot of people seem to only have the Red shoulder pad and the long Red steel 19mm rods.

 

As far as ENG cameras go you will be having a lot of the same problems as with the Red in terms of having to make sure that they are as stripped down as possible and being in trouble if they want to add much in the way of accessories.

 

The Flyer is a good rig and if you can't afford anything better in the near future I would say it is a good option as you are going to need some practice before you are good enough to take bigger jobs anyway. You are also going to need accessories such as a wireless follow focus which you will be able to use with a bigger rig when you move on up. Just don't expect to be able to make a good living with it unless you have particular clients in mind.

 

~Jess

 

 

Thanks Jess. You really helped put it into perspective.

 

-Ben C.

[Brian Freesh]

When I said no money I just meant not at the level a big rig rents for, etc. My bad.

 

Uh huh, we get it Steve. Mr. Big Man, too good for the rest of us. :-P

 

The main problem with the Flyer is going to always be having to ask what what camera and accessories very first thing as your ability to do the job will depend on that. The camera that is going to really give you problems is the Red. You will run into it a lot in the low budget market and while you can fly it stripped down on a Flyer on low budget jobs they never seem to have the correct accessories to fly it stripped down. In my experience even when I am told we will be recording to CF cards for one reason or another we always seem to end up on the harddrive. They also never seem to have a clip on matte box or a good method of mounting their matte box as a lot of people seem to only have the Red shoulder pad and the long Red steel 19mm rods.

 

I've found that so long as I am clear about my rig's capabilities, I don't have a problem once I've gotten to set. Now this means communicating with someone who knows what's going on, mind you. The UPM won't know jack about the camera even if they think they do. And if you communicate clearly (through email so there's proof!) if they show up with too heavy a system, there's nothing against you. The biggest problem I've ever had was last week when I got a call for a same day shoot with a camera I had worked with before. DP said it would be the same set up. What he didn't know until he showed up (shortly before I did) was that the CF cards had been taken by a business partner for something else, so we had to put the Raid Drive on. Fortunately, everything else was light enough that I wasn't too heavy (well, says the guy who didn't weigh the set-up. Coulda been over-working my gimbal a little bit)

 

After looking at the photos, the "Nimblecam" looks like a beefed up Flyer. Does that mean that the Flyer is fully customizable? From my understanding, the Flyer's limit is right around 19 lbs., but as shown in the photos, the "Nimblecam" supports a 31 lb. RED camera. What is all invested in the rig to make this possible?

 

Charles could certainly answer in specifics, and I think he has already on the forum, so it may only be a search away. But basically the only Flyer parts are the arm and the monitor, both modified a bit. The post is from a Pro or Pro Lite I believe, there's a MK-V electronics box on the bottom there, and the whole battery mount is custom made I think. He uses his regular Pro Vest, though you could use your Flyer vest for such a set-up and not modify the socket block. All the same, it's not that the Flyer is modular or upgradeable as it is, so much as you can customize anything you put your mind and your $ to. I've done a few inexpensive upgrades to my Flyer, and have a few more floating around my brain as well.

 

Good luck on your move to LA, look us up when you get out here!

[Steve Fracol SOC]

Hi Mr. Fracol,

 

Sorry about the miscommunication. Leave it up to the new guy to stir things up....

 

-Ben C.

 

Mr. Fracol is my DAD...I go by Steve...LOL

 

No worries Ben just wanted to clear things up. Your asking good questions...its a big decision...keep it up.

 

Steve

[Kevin Andrews SOC]

When I was making my choice, I saw the EFP to be everything the Flyer LE wanted to be. The 3A arm design is worth the entire price I think. Big rig for small price. This also means more money in my pocket after each job and less going towards the bank. :rolleyes:

 

(Wanted a used Clipper 2 but couldn't find one. Wasn't educated enough about PRO at the time to pursue that angle.)

[John atkinson]

The EFP was my first rig. It's light and is great for broadcast with the right accessories. You can pay it off fast and invest in a real good sled when you get even. Get a good vest and arm. If you know a machinist you can retro with your own input. Send it to Terry West and get it wired for anything you want, incl. 12/24. I use a PRO for big stuff, but still use the EFP for Live event.

 

John

[Jess Haas SOC]

Thanks for the post. I wanted to make sure to mention that I am not staying in Dayton for long. I am planning on moving to L.A. in the summer specifically in the "La Brea" area. I am not expecting to find any work around here. Also, my goal is that I will find some sort of work if I get a Steadicam. So far that looks like getting a Flyer or better.

 

Moving to LA? You didn't mention that. In that case the advice is totally different. Don't buy anything and chose a different profession. We don't need any more competition :-)

 

All joking aside on the low end there is a ridiculous amount of competition in LA especially thanks to the Flyers, Pilots and even glidecams of the world. That said if my experience is any indicator if you work your ass off you should still be able to find more work than in Ohio. Be sure to let us know when your out here so we can all grab a drink. We did that shortly after I moved here (almost a year ago) and it made for a fun (and interesting) night.

 

~Jess

[Benjamin Joseph Corwin]

Thanks for the post. I wanted to make sure to mention that I am not staying in Dayton for long. I am planning on moving to L.A. in the summer specifically in the "La Brea" area. I am not expecting to find any work around here. Also, my goal is that I will find some sort of work if I get a Steadicam. So far that looks like getting a Flyer or better.

 

Moving to LA? You didn't mention that. In that case the advice is totally different. Don't buy anything and chose a different profession. We don't need any more competition :-)

 

All joking aside on the low end there is a ridiculous amount of competition in LA especially thanks to the Flyers, Pilots and even glidecams of the world. That said if my experience is any indicator if you work your ass off you should still be able to find more work than in Ohio. Be sure to let us know when your out here so we can all grab a drink. We did that shortly after I moved here (almost a year ago) and it made for a fun (and interesting) night.

 

~Jess

 

Haha. Thanks for the invite.

[Kevin Andrews SOC]

The EFP was my first rig. It's light and is great for broadcast with the right accessories. You can pay it off fast and invest in a real good sled when you get even. Get a good vest and arm. If you know a machinist you can retro with your own input. Send it to Terry West and get it wired for anything you want, incl. 12/24. I use a PRO for big stuff, but still use the EFP for Live event.

 

John

 

Very cool stuff John. I definitely plan on upgrading all components in the future. Meant to give you a shout last weekend when I was in Orlando. You didn't happen to work on the Disney xmas parade did you?

[Mike Germond SOC]

The EFP was my first rig. It's light and is great for broadcast with the right accessories. You can pay it off fast and invest in a real good sled when you get even. Get a good vest and arm. If you know a machinist you can retro with your own input. Send it to Terry West and get it wired for anything you want, incl. 12/24. I use a PRO for big stuff, but still use the EFP for Live event.

 

John

 

Very cool stuff John. I definitely plan on upgrading all components in the future. Meant to give you a shout last weekend when I was in Orlando. You didn't happen to work on the Disney xmas parade did you?

 

I just moved into the Orlando market and tried to get my foot in the Disney door. John, if you worked the parade, let us know how it went. Andy Montejo has been telling me that every time he works for Disney, he remembers why it's few and far between. (something about working like a mule for peanuts)

 

That said, us Florida folks need to sit down for a drink sometime..

[Charles Papert]

Hey Brian,

 

After looking at the photos, the "Nimblecam" looks like a beefed up Flyer. Does that mean that the Flyer is fully customizable? From my understanding, the Flyer's limit is right around 19 lbs., but as shown in the photos, the "Nimblecam" supports a 31 lb. RED camera. What is all invested in the rig to make this possible?

 

-Ben Corwin

 

Hi Ben:

 

My Nimblecam is a true hybrid--PRO top stage, post and vest; Tiffen gimbal, monitor and Flyer arm (modified to full-size socket block and armpost), old XCS monitor arm, MK-V junction box, custom yoke and lower rod system.

 

The RED picture shows a 31 lb combined camera and sled weight; Tiffen's rating of the Flyer's capacity doesn't include the sled which is around 11 pounds, I think. My sled is a couple of pounds heavier. That camera configuration just might make it on the Flyer arm. I used the PRO arm for that particular job. Since this is my 2nd sled I can "steal" whatever is necessary from the big rig for a given setup. Note that many of the components for the RED are distributed to the base of the rig which allows for better mass management--the stock Flyer would be tougher to work with in this regard because of its design. In general, my feeling is that the Flyer is not a good match for the RED as you can't often count on the appropriate parts to show up as Jess may have also mentioned.

 

Flyers are great for those who tend to use their own camera setups on almost everything they shoot, i.e. HVX with Letus or EX3 etc, cameras that fit comfortably on the payload. For someone who definitely wants to hang out their shingle as an operator, you should be prepared to upgrade as soon as it becomes a liability not to. Buying an older rig with the intention to upgrade parts is the time-honored way to do it; this works out great for those with a mechanical/electronic bent or have access to those who do. If you are used to buying things shiny and new, this could be a tough road--it's certainly a long one. Fortunately there are a lot of resources on the web to see what others have done.

[Steve Fracol SOC]

As always Charles...very well put. That is what I really wanted to say in the first place but it came out wrong. LOL.

 

Steve

[chris fawcett]

The original Flyer maxes out at just under 19 lbs of camera weight (that's with 2 x IDXs on the sled), making it a bit light for a RED. The sled actually weighs only 5 lbs without batteries. The LE might differ slightly.

 

It's a great rig for the money. I paid for mine on the first Steadicam job I did, and had money left over to upgrade almost immediately. The only question the producer asked me before the shoot was "Is it a real Steadicam? I mean, does it have Steadicam written on it?" ;)

 

I agree with the earlier comment that the Flyer is a super rig to practice on. You get a lot of flying time in a light rig—you hardly need to take it off. It's also so flighty, that you really train your gimbal hand.

 

Good luck in your decision,

 

Chris

[Brian Freesh]

The original Flyer maxes out at just under 19 lbs of camera weight (that's with 2 x IDXs on the sled), making it a bit light for a RED. The sled actually weighs only 5 lbs without batteries.

 

Chiming in to say the original Flyer sled is actually a bit less than 5 lbs by itself, just over 4.5 actually. At least mine was before I modified it. That (nearly) .5 lb can be important working with the limited weight restrictions of the FLyer. Also, Chris, is your 19lbs limit based on safety for the rig, or on actual physical limitations? If your arm literally couldn't take any more than that, then the arms improved since yours was produced! I feel fully comfortable putting 20lbs of camera safely, plus battery weight, which still leaves me about 4.5 pounds before my arm maxes out (and I have balanced it beautifully with a 24lb LT set-up on top). I have and will continue to use it with the Red so long as I continue to be explicitly clear about what I need to make that happen. I haven't been hired for every Red job I've been up for, but they've all been fine with my limitations, a product of the market I'm in most likely. The best I've gotten it down to is about 16lbs of camera weight, so around 19 with one Red brick powering the sled, bartech, and down converter. No wireless transmitter or cinetape or other such useful device in that set-up. Again, product of the market I'm in.

 

paid for mine on the first Steadicam job I did

 

I so want to punch you right now. |-)~

 

The only question the producer asked me before the shoot was "Is it a real Steadicam? I mean, does it have Steadicam written on it?"

 

That was actually one of the deciding factors in purchasing the Flyer for me. At the time, the money I needed to spend on it vs. some sort of competitor was a stretch, but I knew that at that level, walking on to set with a Steadicam was gonna buy me a lot more credibility. It wasn't the only deciding factor of course. Incidentally, I have had someone call it a "toy," someone who should know better (not an op) and when i started to tell him why it's not a toy, he actually got angry with me for disagreeing with him(but he gets angry for less), then went on to tell me about the guy who invented the original. I don't remember the name he mentioned, but it wasn't Garret Brown! When i mentioned Garret, he left the room.