Premium Members Stephen Murphy Posted October 9, 2004 Author Premium Members Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 ""I agree with the basic statement from Kareem that you need to do whatever is possible to keep your DP happy, even if it means that you suffer and that it could not be your best-ever operating"" To add insult to injury, after setting up the multi tenteceld beast, the director decides the steadicam shots are too smooth to intercut with the rest of the sequence which is handheld. He asks me "can you make it rougher?" (groan..) I reply "yes i can, but i charge extra for that". Not getting my deadpan sense of humour he confers with the DP for a few moments to see if they can afford to pay me for my extra steadi - vibrations. I was laughing on the inside when they agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members RobVanGelder Posted October 9, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 That´s really funny, Stephen But you also mentioned that this could be your last day on the show as well... Is this related to that joke that they didn´t get? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members RobVanGelder Posted October 9, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 Eric, Although all your tips and suggestions are very valuable and true, I find that many times such solutions and that equipment is not available. That means that I am probably working in an environment where you cannot expect all those nice new inventions that you mention....... And so do many other guys out there! I find it very difficult to go against the decisions of a DIT or ENG-Broadcast van-engineer as they are responsable for the final image on tape. One time I worked on a live-show and all camera´s were tethered to big stiff Triax cable, so I asked for a special lightweight cable. That arrived from the equipment pool but when the engineer saw it he took it away and cut it in two before our eyes! He said it was dangerous and unreliable and did not want it to excist! Ok, that is extreme, but it shows how they think about their job. Another time with the HD movie I did, the DIT did not want any short and lightweight cables between camera and his monitor/vectorscope and since he had the full trust and belief from our beloved(?) director there was no way to argue. About sound: although the current equipment is very good, sound people are not happy when the final connection between their mixer and the recorder/camcorder is wireless. There is no way to check for drop-outs or distortion then. So I agree with your statements, but there are always so many other people involved that have to keep a smile on their face,that it is often impossible to "demand" or arrange the setup that works best for YOU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Alec Jarnagin SOC Posted October 9, 2004 Moderators Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 Eric, Ahhh. Thank you. I read this strand last night after work and was too tired to reply, so I returned now to find your great post. Didn't we just list all this? Oh yeah, I guess it was deleted with the hack job. Eric is 100% correct and we need some con-solidarity here folks. Having flown too much HD lately, I have to say that much of the time, the DP really does need to see an HD image. These antiquated news ENG housings that the HD cameras are built into simply carry too much risk in them - back focus is a HUGE problem, changing more than some political candidates allegedly change their mind. Perhaps the new generation of cameras built from the ground up with increased latitude, etc will allow for a tether free life-style, but in the meantime I strongly recommend the ONE cable limit. Like Eric says, a short super light weight BNC WILL work (you can even buy it in true 75 Ohm and it is negligibly thicker; although, I have used six feet of 50 Ohm by accident without problems). Audio, if a must, needs to be wireless - I contact the sound guy before the shoot day and get him on my side! If the DP needs the paint box during rehearsal, I have no problem with that. Once we shoot, Iris is done with our remote system so there is no need for the paint box. If they HAVE to have all the crap, go fiber. Your best bet is to make allies of all involved and tackle these issues before you're on set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulEdwards Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 That was my first thought too, but i was told the lightweight bnc (50 ohm) doesnt give a true HD picture: it needs to be at least 75 ohm cable. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Stephen, You can get 75 Ohm lightweight (2.5mm diameter) cable from RS in the UK at http://rswww.com Just search for "RG179". The BNC ends are their product code 295-7481. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Alec Jarnagin SOC Posted October 9, 2004 Moderators Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 Rob, I think you may have posted while I was typing (or I simply hit reply before reading yours). The engineer who cut your cable is an idiot. Obviously, he has NO respect for your job and what you bring as a professional, thus he deserves equal respect. This of course gets you nowhere on set. These people are control freaks with huge egos that were probably bullied as children. Oh well, go over their head. I once had a similar situation where I was shooting a multi-camera interview, but each camera was isoed. The subjects were sitting in two chairs facing one another, in a controlled environment. The engineer wanted to have a hard wire cable to slave time code, a paint box, and a hard BNC (standard def). When I told him to jam the time code and pre-program the paint box settings, he refused as he wanted iris control too (on an evenly lit set!). So, I gave him a Bartech. He squirmed and then ran off and cried like a baby to the director and producer. So I calmly explained to the director that I felt the moves ought to replicate a dolly in look (the location prohibited a dolly in the first place, which is why they brought me in). To best achieve this look, I explained I needed to be tether free or else we risked replicating a boat movie. The moment I held my fingers up and mimicked a bad horizon the virtual sheers came down. End of story. Of course the footage was fine, the time code never drifted, and he never needed to pull iris. Stupid engineer. As for the audio guy monitoring final sound, that is a valid point. Again, they ought to use a DAT as a back up, or like on a job I just did, we sent a signal back to him to monitor via a light weight transmitter. If you are working with reasonable people, there is usually a legitimate answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sebastianjewell Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 hi there Rob... I just read your post about the "big stiff triax cable", are you seriously saying that you did the shot with original cable after he cut the "new" one in two! I guess i´m old fashioned but i don´t think i would have done it...! What´s better annoying the Dp or not getting any more jobs because of operating badly?(because of dodgy cables) Hoping you didn´t... Sebastian Jewell Steadicam Operator Stockholm.Sweden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Stephen Murphy Posted October 9, 2004 Author Premium Members Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 Great variety of responses, thanks guys! Paul, thanks for that tip. Ill give them a call on monday and get some shipped over. That will make my life so much easier:)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members RobVanGelder Posted October 10, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted October 10, 2004 Sebastian wrote: I guess i´m old fashioned but i don´t think i would have done it...! What´s better annoying the Dp or not getting any more jobs because of operating badly?(because of dodgy cables) Hoping you didn´t... +++ Yes I had to. Not much choice and there was no DP anyway since this was a show from our nation broadcaster. The only people you deal with are the technicians, your fellow camera-operators and the director and the floor-manager. It was not a success, but more because the director liked to place his camera´s (4 of which 1 was mine) on the 4 corners of the set, which limited my working space to almost zero! Every move I made would make me visible in 1 or 2 other camera´s! I could not talk him out of this setup so it was the last day anyway. Oh, about annoying the DP: I think people like these are most important for our career. It´s better to stay friends, a good DP, someone who understands and can be helpful to you, will know why the operating was less then perfect and will help you (the next time) to get better equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Jeff Muhlstock SOC Posted October 10, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted October 10, 2004 7) If they REALLY have to have Audio, HD-SDI, Downconvert back, HD Y-Channel (For the Menus) Camera Painting and shading, Iris control, tally etc etc then it's really a Fiber Situation and Believe me if you run the Telecast Copperhead (Which I did the field testing on) you will have ZERO Problem running the fiber. I did some pretty complex shots with Fiber and it's just fine. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> or better yet, get a sony HD950 ! A fraction of the weight and you dont have to record on board. If production needs all the goodies of HD and your going to consider fiber, loose the F900 and have them rent the 950. One peice of thin fiber, very simple to work with. And very soon to be available, "The Stop box" . This is a small box that connects to the video lens control port and a motor. It enabables the engineer to pull iris on cine style lenses via the ccu control. Look for this item at rental houses very soon. This is a great alternative to wireless pulls without adding any more cables. All through the "fiber" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJ Williams Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 Stephen re your light wires.... ....quote... That was my first thought too, but i was told the lightweight bnc (50 ohm) doesnt give a true HD picture: it needs to be at least 75 ohm cable. I also have a bit of the very light weight BNc to Bnc cables a little over an 1/8" dia and very flexible. I've been told that these are 75 0hm? Could you see any difference in the signal when you had your light cable up? I've also made some light weight wire into Xlr 3 pins to carry the audio. The wire is the same size but the insulation is smaller we haven't been able to detect any degradation? Gawd I hate being able to pan the rig with the cable. TJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Mark Karavite Posted November 22, 2004 Premium Members Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 Hello all, I had an interesting discussion with the producer of a 24P low budget indie regarding the whole cable issue. The DP envisioned a "Player' like opening to the movie, tracking the camera through a crowded night club, up the stairs to a 2nd level with actors at a pool table, etc... stopping to catch dialogue along the way. When I was first told that they wanted me to carry 3 sound cables (2 send and 1 return) for this shot, I expressed my concern, then I offered viable solutions. They weren't recording DAT backup anyway, and they wouldn't pay for a machine on set, or post syncing. I arranged to borrow (FOR FREE) a pair of lectrosonic wireless units, so I could transmit audio (2 mono sources, 1 for backup). I felt strongly that my operating would greatly benefit from being completely wireless, and I do a lot of wired work on live concerts. After all, this shot was the movie's opening shot! When I called the producer to give him the good news that he could have primary audio recorded in camera (at no cost to him), and no compromises on the Steadicam operating, I figured he would be elated. Instead, he informed me that I was replaced by an operator that didn't mind carrying the cables. How about that, fired for being conscientious about my craft. It all worked out OK, because the shoot was on Halloween, so I was happy to be completely wireless while trick or treating with my 2 toddler boys. We ran 2 full Thomas the Tank Engines for 7 blocks without a single cable. Mark Karavite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Stephen Murphy Posted November 22, 2004 Author Premium Members Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 Stephen re your light wires....Could you see any difference in the signal when you had your light cable up? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi TJ, I never got to try the lightweight 75 ohm cables. On the particular job i was on the DP wasnt interested in trying any alternative methods, even when i offered up the lightweight cables as a solution. The other problem was, depending on which engineer you were talking to, some would tell you that a "true" HD picture was possible with the lightweight 75ohm cable, and others would say it wasn't. In my case even the possiblity of it being a problem was enough to discourage the DP from trying it. I think in future il either insist on a telecast system or that we go wireless (let them view a SD image). Shooting with all those cables was a really impractical decision and cost us a lot of time, never mind making operating that much more difficult. Ah well you live and learn i guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicholas M. Chopp Posted January 14, 2005 Report Share Posted January 14, 2005 I highly recommend Gepco cables. Their SDI coax (I stick with the VPM2000TS) is only 20AWG, and it's about 35 pounds per MFT, I think. They take the BNC-6 end. 75ohm, 3ghz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members David Shawl SOC Posted January 15, 2005 Premium Members Report Share Posted January 15, 2005 Rigging a Glidecam V-16 w/ Two Wireless Lavs and a Audio/Video Monitor feed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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