PRO 2 with F35/Genesis power issues

[Matt Petrosky]

I hope you get it all worked out. I agree with Doc about checking the pins...or popping off the jumper block and testing the banana plugs against the schematics. Pretty wierd though.

 

I mentioned earlier that Terry put the diodes in mine -- to update, still working great and no flashy battery meters anymore. I've flown nothing but the f-35 or genesis for the last 2 months (only once with deck), no issues except the camera/deck combo sucking my hc's dry like my 6 yr old sucking a juice box inside-out!

 

rb

 

I'll check them again, but like I stated, I watched Jack check every pin in every possible configuration and it showed the exact power I was suppose too.

Like everything was working, A-okay.

But as soon as we plugged in the Y cable (1 into camera power, 1 into Aux power) the top Aux battery would start to flash, and this was without a load on it (no camera, nothing).

 

But if the diodes are wired incorrectly there should be no power correct?

Is it possible the diodes just aren't working at all even though they are wired in to the gold mount plates?

 

 

 

Maybe check to see that the diodes are all on the positive leads from the A/B plates, if one is on the negative and one is on the positive this could be a problem. Or perhaps one diode is bad and lets voltage back-flow, a multi-meter can check this if applied to the diode's leads. Also maybe one of the plates never got a diode installed. I've made simple mistakes with a workbench full of parts and wires. If you get distracted it's easy to loose track of what you did or didn't do.

 

And like Doc, I am curious to know if the 12V jumper block would work for a Y-cable between the Aux and Cam power and solve this problem while utilizing both post wire runs.

 

Keep us posted.

 

-Matt

 

Keep us posted.

[Alec Jarnagin SOC]

"And like Doc, I am curious to know if the 12V jumper block would work for a Y-cable between the Aux and Cam power and solve this problem while utilizing both post wire runs."

 

The 12V only block gives no power to the AUX port. I just discovered this as I had David Hable put diodes into a 12V only block. Upon receiving it, I was testing it with a meter and found this. I thought perhaps even the mighty Hable made a mistake so I grabbed an unmodified one from GPI I already had and found the same thing. The Y cable is meant to be used with the 12/24 block. You CAN use it with a 12V only block but the side of the Y that plugs into the AUX port is useless (i.e. you could leave it unplugged and you are not splitting the load up the post).

[Michael Stumpf]

 

Michael, put a battery on the Aux plate only, depress the breaker and put a multimeter on the aux pins on the top stage (1+12v, 2 ground). That should tell you if you are even getting power out of that battery. Jack hasn't warned you because they do not have a solution in the non-digital post cable for the undersized wire load capacity. It's probably OK but with too many accessories you may run the risk of melting a wire. The dual battery cable deals with the problem of the under-rated lemo connectors.

 

OK, so I put the standard Camera/Aux jumper block back in today, did exactly as you asked above and am showing 16.29 volts on a charged up Dionic 90.

 

pulled the breaker and did the same on the camera battery plate only and was showing 15.8 volts on another battery.

 

put a battery on each of the camera and aux plates, switched to 24V mode and was on the 24V 3 pin camera port was showing 15.92 out of one pin and 15.87 out of the 3rd pin.

So that's what about 31V combined out of the 3 pin camera power port in the upper junction box correct?

 

Switched back to 12V mode and got the 15.9 out of the one pin and nothing out of the 3rd.

 

So correct me if I'm wrong, if the diodes that Terry welded in were incorrect, I would not get power right?

 

If so, I guess I'm just going to have to wait until I do my next F35 job and check it again at the prep to see if the camera is draining power from both Camera and Aux batteries evenly now and the blinking upper Aux battery no longer takes place.

It's just weird that it continued to do that even after I put the Diodes in when I tested it on the show and then had Jack run the tests. I don't have a Y cable that goes from the 3 pin camera port and the 2 pin Aux port anymore though. I had it converted to two 3 pin camera port power for use in the 12V only jumper block.

So I can't test to see if the top Aux battery will still blink when using the standard aux/camera jumper block and plugging in the camera/aux Y cable in.

But I don't see how it could of miraculously cured that issue from a few weeks ago when it was still doing that when Jack and I tested it, even with the Diodes in??

 

If it still does it, it's got to be the diodes? Can diodes be no good upon installation, even if installed correctly?

 

Thanks guys, sorry clearly I'm no electrical engineer.

[Jens Piotrowski SOC]

After talking to George (GPI) and Paul (Anton B.) a while back, I thought this was laid to rest. As far as I understand, this a purely a cosmetic issue? The A/B batteries don't want to be charged by any other charger (or battery), so they are signaling this on their display by blinking. Nothing else happens, they are no getting damaged and the next time you put them on the A/B charger they reset? Putting diodes in your system means, putting one more piece in that can fail and that takes current away from the camera. I usually pull my breakers when the camera is turned off, so I never have the issue in the first place. The Genesis/SSR combo usually runs about 45 min with the GPI 3 battery block and the Y-cable on my PRO II using 2 Dionic 90.

 

my 2 c

[Matt Petrosky]

As far as I understand, this a purely a cosmetic issue?

 

This is not how I understand it, at least with the Dionic HC's I believe that when they signal this mode they shut down to protect the battery from cross-charging. And a properly specked high-grade diode is really unlikely to fail. Sure it is possible, but as far as components go, low on the list. And if it fails it's an easy field swap or bypass. The reality is that a lot of today's cameras are HD and they like the newer chemistry batteries. Simplicity is great, but not when it comes at the high price of unreliable compatibility. I tried running a couple of HD cameras from my HC's before I put the diodes in and one battery would almost always shut down. I was surprised by this since I did six months with a Genesis (fiber, not the deck) and used two Dionic 90's put in parallel via a Cam-Power & Aux-Power Y-cable before I installed the diodes.

 

-Matt

[Jens Piotrowski SOC]

As far as I understand, this a purely a cosmetic issue?

 

This is not how I understand it, at least with the Dionic HC's I believe that when they signal this mode they shut down to protect the battery from cross-charging. And a properly specked high-grade diode is really unlikely to fail. Sure it is possible, but as far as components go, low on the list. And if it fails it's an easy field swap or bypass. The reality is that a lot of today's cameras are HD and they like the newer chemistry batteries. Simplicity is great, but not when it comes at the high price of unreliable compatibility. I tried running a couple of HD cameras from my HC's before I put the diodes in and one battery would almost always shut down. I was surprised by this since I did six months with a Genesis (fiber, not the deck) and used two Dionic 90's put in parallel via a Cam-Power & Aux-Power Y-cable before I installed the diodes.

 

-Matt

 

 

interesting, maybe Paul can chime in......Paul?

[Michael Stumpf]

OK after a few hours of cleaning the gear from a dust filled music video I finally got the time to

take my sled and Y cable back down to Terry's to test the "issue" I've been having in this thread.

Well, I had him make another Y cable with the standard Aux and Camera Power.

I put 2 of my Dionic 90 HC's on the sled.

And guess what? No issues with flashing batteries with new cable.

We even put a load on the rig and still no issue.

 

So as it turns out, seems the Diodes are working just fine and it seems it was the original Y cable that caused the issue.

Still weird that even with 2 other Y cables from Panavision showed the same issue. But maybe they were wired wrong too.

 

All that matters is a I have a Y cable now that can be used without freaking out my batteries, and my mind set to ease that the Diodes work.

 

Thanks all for the support and help with diagnosing the problem for me.

Now hopefully the RED power cable I just got won't cause any issues while I'm in AZ on the movie I'm about to do.

Fingers crossed, these HD cameras are so fickle. :D

 

Take care all, and thanks again.

[pauldudeck]

As far as I understand, this a purely a cosmetic issue?

 

This is not how I understand it, at least with the Dionic HC's I believe that when they signal this mode they shut down to protect the battery from cross-charging. And a properly specked high-grade diode is really unlikely to fail. Sure it is possible, but as far as components go, low on the list. And if it fails it's an easy field swap or bypass. The reality is that a lot of today's cameras are HD and they like the newer chemistry batteries. Simplicity is great, but not when it comes at the high price of unreliable compatibility. I tried running a couple of HD cameras from my HC's before I put the diodes in and one battery would almost always shut down. I was surprised by this since I did six months with a Genesis (fiber, not the deck) and used two Dionic 90's put in parallel via a Cam-Power & Aux-Power Y-cable before I installed the diodes.

 

-Matt

 

Matt/Jens,

Any of the Anton/Bauer Digital batteries will have the single bar displayed across the LCD if it is being backfed by another battery or installed onto a charger that will not recognize it. There will be no damage done, as this is the safety feature. As Jens wrote, as soon as the battery is returned to the charger, all will be well.

If one battery is discharging faster than the other, then there is a different issue and it is probably with how the batteries are wired. Current takes the "path of least resistance", so if something is inline with one of the batteries, then it will drain from the other much quicker.

Paul

 

 

interesting, maybe Paul can chime in......Paul?