shooting Boat to Boat?

[Janice Arthur]

Hello friends.

 

I have a documentary coming up in May. And the director is thinking about putting the rig ona sailboat. It's a ordinary sailboat. It's about 30ft.

 

I'm unsure of it's use on such a small boat. I'm thinking handheld might be a better way to go on this subject. But I've never filmed with a Steadicam on a boat before.

 

Anyone got any good advice?

 

 

Hi Erik;

 

I had a guy call about something like this a long time ago. I really think handheld is better.

 

You have no where to go when the boom comes across and sailboats rarely stay flat, so you're standing position is compromised.

 

Also, when it comes right down to it, just walking around a sailboat the rules of boating are "one hand for the boat," so now just to move around (without gear) you've lost one hand for operating.

 

My two cents worth.

 

Janice

[Lars Erik]

Yeah, I agree Janice. Thank you for your answer.

 

Erik

[Mark Karavite]

Dear Erik,

 

Check out the Mako Head:

 

http://www.airsealand.com/rentals/Stabilize/Mako_Head/

 

These guys are out of Florida. I don't know if you can get your hands on it in Norway, but they would be able to tell you.

 

I havn't used this particular head, but I have used The Perfect Horizon Head, and it works very well on water. The advantage of the Mako is that it doesn't require an expensive operator, where the Perfect Horizon does. This makes me believe it is a simpler (and usually this is better) system.

 

Either way, a horizon stabilizing head would yield better results than either Steadicam or handheld, and certainly be a safer option for you. Are you a boater? Being in high seas can make most anyone a bit seasick, but looking into a viewfinder all day magnifies the effect. It's the same with aerial work. Consider dramamine for motion sickness. Also taking breaks, and focusing your sight on the horizon, will help with any seasickness you might encounter.

 

Good luck,

Mark Karavite

[Hervé Colosio]

for sure the steadicam will not be the good way for that shoot .

 

on 30ft boats you can use canon or fuji lens stabilizer . and if you want to film other boats from this boat , the makohead of course is the best way or more simple to get in norway is the gyrozoom , or a ks6 kenlabs gyro on the handheld camera .

(the gyrozoom have focal limited to 60mm mini )

[Lars Erik]

Hello everyone,

 

thanks a lot for all the great replies.

 

I've been speaking to the director and said no. It always feels bad to say no to a director, but sometimes one just have to. I've mentioned to him the tips you've given. And we'll be looking into getting a gyro instead. And filming the sailboat from another boat.

 

Again, thanks a lot. Actually I'm still not looking forward to the shoot, as I have a pretty severe fear of water. But hey, it's only my head that's messing with me.

 

LE

[Brian W. Hall]

Working on a TV show and we are doing a Main Title Sequence for the show. We have our talent on a sail boat. One of the shots is a shot from a follow boat shooting the sailboat. The shot is a medium shot of the 4 talent on the edge of the boat. Our director thinks that putting me on the follow boat will get a smooter shot and a better shot then handheld or sticks or a highhat.. I feel like I can get the shot on sticks or even handheld if i wedge myself in somewhere. What does everyone think? Should i give the boat to boat a try using steadi? Anyone done this and have any tips? Thanks@

 

Brian

[mattmarek]

what kind of waters will you be in? i've shot from boats before in mild to slightly wavy water and have had great results. being on sticks, will get you a stable shot, but any sway in the boat will show up in the frame.

[Robert Starling SOC]

Brian:

 

I can't speak to using a Steadi for boat to boat but I have over 25 years experience shooting traditional boat to boat, air to boat, land to boat, underwater to boat etc. etc.. Your post really does not provide enough information to determine the best approach and solution. I'm new to Steadicam so maybe there is a single answer approach from those with more experience in that area but I've never seen a Steadicam on a boat to boat shoot. No doubt it's been done.

 

Can you provide more detail?

 

1. The size and hull design of both boats

2. The body of water; lake, ocean, river, bay

3. The typical weather conditions, specifically wind for its effect on the water and Steadicam

4. Tidal influences

5. Speed of the two vessels

6. Camera

7. Crew / support you'll have

8. If you used a Steadicam would you hard mount it or try to wear it?

9. Can you swim or float with a Steadicam attached ;-}

 

Robert Starling

Las Vegas

[Mike Marriage]

I was filming a regatta last week in a range of seas. Personally I didn't even suggest using a steadicam as the chase boat was 49 feet and it is a struggle to stand, let alone wear a Steadicam.

 

Most of the shooting was from a helicopter, which works far better for wide shots and doesn't make you sea sick!

 

You may be best shooting handheld with a stabilized lens. Canon make various lens for video and Schwem make the Gyrozoom which is quite a long lens. If you are shooting on film, I'm not sure of the options. It may be worth renting a gyro stabilized head - hopefully someone else could advise on that as I have never operated one.

 

Like Robert says, it depends a lot on the boat size, seas and, of course, the budget.

[Charles Papert]

I only have one nugget of (potential) wisdom on this, and that was from a job that required me to shoot from a Coast Guard boat as we shot a rescued gray whale being released out to sea (fascinating gig, and without this turning into one of those "look how heavy my rig was, ain't that cool", we were shooting an Imax documentary of the event). I hardmounted the rig to the guardrail, but after 45 minutes of having to reign in the swells which would have bottomed and topped out the arm over and over again, I realized that simply mounting the gimbal directly to the boat without the arm would have been an easier and probably just as effective a choice. Of course you need some serious wind protection as well.

 

That said, I think something like the Mako Head (http://www.makohead.com/) would be a better choice.

 

The times that I have stood in a boat wearing the rig (especially a smaller one that pitches around a fair amount), I've been sorry, as the unpredictable weight shifting that occurs can be unnerving or even dangerous for the operator.

[WillArnot]

Yep. Hard mounted with 3 gyros and a good wind break should give you desirable results.

 

Preferrable rather than monkeying around on deck trying to keep yourself and the rig from falling, would be as Mike suggested and use a gyro stabilized head. I've never used the Mako head, but would be interested in 1st hand assessments.

 

Currently we have been using the Chapman Gyro Stabilised head and I have to say it is the best I have seen. The head is also very robust.

 

Will

[Michael Stumpf]

I've done a few boat shoots with the Steadicam.

Most recently last year in the Bahamas on a 100+ foot yacht.

 

It wasn't too bad then, as the ocean was pretty calm, but still, you work REALLY hard and have to fight constant g forces. Think of walking down the middle aisle of a moving bus while it stops and starts, without holding onto the rails. Same as an airplane while there is turbulence.

 

From my few experiences with it, I'm not a fan of using Steadicam on a boat. One of my boat shoots was on a cruise ship to Hawaii too, that wasn't all that bad, of course, except on the days where there were 10+ foot swells.

Even then, the sway of the HUGE cruise ship required me to constantly correct and hold the frame as stable as possible as the ship rolled side to side.

 

I've also down hand held work from boat to boat, and was in a relatively small boat (probably 20-22 feet).

I had to sit on the bow and shoot forward.

I nearly got thrown into the water a couple times.

The image was pretty good and gave a nice REAL point of view shot, but hitting the waves really tossed me up and down.

 

As I recommended a couple years ago on the first page of this post, use the Mako Head.

[Steve Fracol SOC]

I agree with everyone for the most part. I had to shoot on Lake St. Claire (sp?) in Detroit last summer while shooting TV News Promos for WXYZ Ch 7. We were out for about 45 minutes to an hour and I was in the rig for about 35 of those minutes and that was enough. I did manage to get a few very nice shots of a sailboat passing through the sunset with the GPYC in the background. I was on a 36' or 32' motor chase boat (can't remember exactly). The swells on that lake are not that bad but typical 5-8' almost all the time. I think we ended up at an idle speed and let the sailboat come to us and pass by. It was a beautiful shot once we got the timing down.

 

I had the rig on me (centered on the boat-shooting HD VariCam 10-12mm lens) and a key grip with a death grip on my vest just behind my shoulders by my shoulder blades. YES, I said VEST. That is one place I would not take my Klassen Harness. I also checked and made sure my emergency system was working properly prior to getting in the boat. VERY IMPORTANT!!! Make sure if you have snaps and Velcro....you need to un snap the snaps just allowing the Velcro to hold the vest together. That way if you do go over... the rig will peel off your body easier in the panic.

 

Geez...I made that sound way to easy. I hope nobody ever has to find that out. Oh...also splash/rain gear and dry towels. You will get wet most likely.

 

If I had to do it over again I would try to talk them into another solution but if you gotta do it just be smart and safe about it. Try....TRY to put a limit on how much time you will be willing to put into it. (I know... nearly impossible to do that!)

 

I did not get sick but I can imagine many people would get sick while looking at a monitor bobbing while everything else is bobbing other directions. I might have made it through without getting sick because I shot aerials for years. You get a very similar feeling when shooting from a Tyler middle mount. I do not fly in Helo?s anymore however. Actually, a Tyler on the boat would be another good soloution. That with gyros would be pretty awesome. HA!

 

Good luck and check your safety gear! Let us all know how it goes and when it will play. Would love to see it!!!

 

Best,

 

Steve Fracol, SOC

[Dan Coplan]

I've used the Mako head and it's definitely the way to go. The camera is locked down and you can secure yourself so safety is priority one and the shots are clean. Air Sea Land back East is the resource I used, don't know if they have West coast resources or not.

 

http://makohead.com/

 

Similar to the Mako Head is the Perfect Horizon out of Marina del Rey:

 

http://perfecthorizon.com/

 

These are not gyro stabilized heads, by the way. There's a sensor inside that analyzes the pitch and roll and compensates accordingly.

 

You can see samples of the work I did with the Mako Head at the site for a movie I DP'd and operated:

 

http://islanderthemovie.com/trailer.html

 

Actually, this is just a shameless plug as the samples are mere glimpses of the Mako Head in action (closer to the end of the trailer).

 

Dan

[Matt Burton]

The makohead looks super thanks for the info Dan, have you seen the instructional demo video with the cute blonde ?

:rolleyes: