Premium Members Alfeo Dixon SOC Posted July 5, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 I have to work with the P=S freestyle rig again for 2 days, feature, with epics. Like you mentioned, whip pans. There is no way to dynamic balance the rig is there? So little gimbal clearance, how could you check it? Then there is still that side by side balance thing. ........ Its a nice rig and sure you can dynamic balance. The trick to it is to put as little as possible on the cameras and above the IA adjustment plates. Why? Because the top and bottom cameras counter each other during a change of the IA. At the bottom of the top camera is a 15mm rod holder (rear of the rig)... put everything you can aks wise here. If you have to add to the cameras or above the IA movement, then try to put that device on both cameras in the exact place, using matching brackets on both cameras. To find your CG... build your 3D rig completely (ready to shoot) and then find the CG1 of the top camera. Then find the CG2 of the bottom camera. Your CG of the rig will lie in the line between CG1 and CG2. To check it... you cant spin it, thats for sure. You'll have to zero your drop time, put your rig in a horizontal position and then make sure the camera will not rotate along the gimbal (pan direction) at any giving angle of pan rotation (you got just over 270deg to check). Hope that confused the hell out of you.... -Alfeo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members JobScholtze Posted July 5, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 I have to work with the P=S freestyle rig again for 2 days, feature, with epics. Like you mentioned, whip pans. There is no way to dynamic balance the rig is there? So little gimbal clearance, how could you check it? Then there is still that side by side balance thing. ........ Its a nice rig and sure you can dynamic balance. The trick to it is to put as little as possible on the cameras and above the IA adjustment plates. Why? Because the top and bottom cameras counter each other during a change of the IA. At the bottom of the top camera is a 15mm rod holder (rear of the rig)... put everything you can aks wise here. If you have to add to the cameras or above the IA movement, then try to put that device on both cameras in the exact place, using matching brackets on both cameras. To find your CG... build your 3D rig completely (ready to shoot) and then find the CG1 of the top camera. Then find the CG2 of the bottom camera. Your CG of the rig will lie in the line between CG1 and CG2. To check it... you cant spin it, thats for sure. You'll have to zero your drop time, put your rig in a horizontal position and then make sure the camera will not rotate along the gimbal (pan direction) at any giving angle of pan rotation (you got just over 270deg to check). Hope that confused the hell out of you.... -Alfeo haha, sorry, i did understand you. Thx for that tip, i figured the spin methode already, finding the cg is a good one, gonna try that. But i still find the 3d rig trowing of my side to side off when the move the camera's fast. There is a difference in weight there? it must be, one is abover your gimbal, and the other one almost below Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Osvaldo Silvera SOC Posted July 6, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 Remember when we complained about a loaded BL4s on the rig? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Mike McGowan SOC Posted July 6, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 Anybody flow a gyro on a 3d rig? I know level becomes even more important in the 3d world but I also know that extra weight is a big deal. The gyro would be on the bottom of the sled so maybe it replaces a shark fin gold mount doubler??? Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Pedro Guimaraes SOC Posted July 6, 2011 Author Premium Members Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 Yes, i have used gyros once......worked great. The weight is not a big issue since I'm adding so much weight that is essentially ballast anyways. So it just useful weight really. In fact I'm looking to buy a set of gyros, probably going to use more often, especially on my segway.....or "india mount" situations that happen quite often in 3D steadicam land.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members JobScholtze Posted July 9, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted July 9, 2011 Just finished a 2 days feauture, very big production, lots of people on set. 2 days full steadicam. I feel if i am ran over by a full loaded truck. It flies yes, but its so limited in many way's. Will upload a pic tonight, but the rig was a beast. 4 black springs almost at if not at all, maxed out. Dang, no fun for a whole day. Need to recover now........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Rob Vuona SOC Posted September 12, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted September 12, 2011 Hey there guys, Just finished another week of 3-D, I have realized that my Love Hate relationship with 3-D is currently more Hate than Love . .. . . . . This Time it was the Element Technica Pulsar Beam Splitter with Two Sony P-1 cameras and Fuji 22x broadcast Lenses., It was for a concert series on direct TV. We were doing 2 sets a day of 9-12 songs each. 60-90 min sets. The best thing about the whole set up was the new broadcast lenses have dual motors built in and can be slaved together. I was able to use my Stanton Zoom / focus control for both cameras. The horrible part about this shoot was the cable that they provided to go back to the truck to control the cameras. I begged for a prep day but since they had done it twice before with other operators they seemed to have a handle on it and assured me all was well but as suspected there certainly could have been ways of lightening it up, specifically that cable loom. The element Technica guys were on their game and certainly knew there stuff, but from a Steadicam perspective every inch of clearance and every Lb makes a huge difference. The first Day I set up the beam splitter with my top stage reversed to allow for a little more clearance for the underslung camera, The second day I set up the beam splitter on a 90 degree with my top stage and this allowed the underslung camera to almost touch the gimbal. It was still way front heavy but certainly not as bad. The cable loom was the biggest contributor of having to muscle the rig to fly because of it's girth and weight it had to be run down the side of the camera along the post then looped up and over my shoulder. I'm not going to lie, it was miserable. I weigh 155lbs / 71kg with clothes and shoes on, wearing the rig, I weighed in at 250lbs / 113.4 kg, needless to say the basic physics were not in my favor. Enjoy the photo's from my iphone There are more of me operating but I have not downloaded them yet from the photographer on set FYI: I charged them almost double my regular rate for all y'all that are being asked to do 3-D, do the research, find out everything you can about the rig and what is expected, then quote accordingly. This rig was a real pain to fly and worth every dollar I charged, they asked me to come down on my rate and I said OK, but my rental rate just went up. They got the hint that my rate wasn't changing regardless and while on the job they realized why. I CAN'T WAIT FOR THE SINGLE CAMERA 3-D RIGS TO MAKE THEIR DEBUT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Afton Grant Posted September 13, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 Two things are important to note from Rob's post. 1) If you're doing more than just regular Steadicam, you should get paid for doing more than regular Steadicam. Twice the cameras should equal twice the pay. 2) Don't be the guy to set the precedent that it's ok to operate with that massive mess of cables coming off the camera. You're screwing yourself, and every operator that follows you. This rule should be applied to all types of ridiculous rigging we get asked to fly. Rob, what was in that giant snake? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members RonBaldwin Posted September 13, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted September 13, 2011 I don't think doing this to your body and gear is worth it at any price...but for gawd's sake at least listen to Afton and Rob about the pricing. I know others are upholding the rates but many are caving and it just hurts everyone! Rob that is a serious tail you are dragging! I hope I didn't miss this info but how much does your sled weigh and was the pro arm drooping (ie over the 75 lbs-ish you mentioned)? Ron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Pedro Guimaraes SOC Posted September 14, 2011 Author Premium Members Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 I was called for that job as I'm part of the regular Direct TV 3D crew (as rig tech/convergence puller.) I'm in NM on a 3D feature so I couldn't go. I'm frankly surprised at your loom??? ....In all my jobs with them we just run 1 fiber cable to the sony mpe200....never seen a loom that big.... I wonder what happened. I'm happy you got a proper rate. I REALLY want everyone reading this to hold onto thier rates for 3D gigs......trust us you will earn every penny of that higher rate.... that said....here is my rig on the current feature...notice my segway in the backround.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Rob Vuona SOC Posted September 14, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted September 14, 2011 Afton, Ron, and Pedro, My Pro Arm with 4 black canisters wasn't completely maxed out but pretty damn close, if I recal , maybe 3 turns on two springs away from max. The 2 cameras and the beam splitter was 45-50 lbs (vest, arm, rig, cameras, and beam splitter) was 95lbs The loom was a a collection of cables that they deemed necessary and in my opinion was just plain lazy. Had I had the day prep I would have insisted that they build a better loom, which they said they had but it was with another operator. It was 4 BNCs , 4 xlrs, 2 cat 5 looking conectors that were in an XLR housing and two 4 pin lemos for the convergence controller, Tahoe Galbi 3986 Wilshire blvd. Pedro, I was told It was Fiber initially and it is in essence, but the Sony P-1 cameras don't come with a fiber attachment, so they have to be tethered to a fiber box. Overall, I had a good time with tthe director, AD and camera peeps since they were all old friends of mine and shooting music is always fun, but sweet Jesus fighting that cable and lifting that pig was absolutely miserable. Especially doing a low angle up to an eye level on stage zoom to a tight with a dolly ...... Uuuugh hurts just thinking about it..... Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Brut Posted January 12, 2012 Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 Hello Everyone, I would like to know more about 3D with steadicam, aand I would like to ask you guys if there is any workshop to learn or basically how i can practice about it. The thing is I live in China and in this part of the world steadicam for 3D is not really famous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Alfeo Dixon SOC Posted January 12, 2012 Premium Members Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 I would like to know more about 3D with steadicam, aand I would like to ask you guys if there is any workshop to learn or basically how i can practice about it. The closest you may get to 3D with Steadicam is Paul Taylor, he teaches the Steadicam workshop up in Rockport and was also the teacher of their 1st 3D Cinematography workshop also. If you get into his Steadicam course, let him know your interested in flying 3D and who knows what he may be able to pull together. http://www.mainemedi...adicam-workshop http://www.mainemedi...oto/paul-taylor LOL... thats me in the background with the motorcycle on my shirt... http://www.mainemedi...aphy/12-07-2010 ....or just vote for Pedro! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Rob Vuona SOC Posted January 12, 2012 Premium Members Report Share Posted January 12, 2012 William, Your best bet to get some practice or torture in on a 3-D rig is to get in contact with whom ever it is that is supplying the 3-D cameras. They would have a facility to set up and contacts for you, then maybe those contacts could mentor Happy torture! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Pedro Guimaraes SOC Posted January 15, 2012 Author Premium Members Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 I belive Jessica Lopez is organizing a 3D steadicam workshop with PRO and the guild sometime next month at the new PRO offices. More info to follow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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