Simon Wyndham Posted February 7, 2011 Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 We are getting very close to the point where post-stabilization is becoming viable, fast, effective and cost-effective enough that mediocre operating can be transformed into near-perfection with the click of a mouse, for all users. To a small degree. It may help with bad operating off a Steadicam to begin with. However I don't believe that in camera stabilisation will ever replace an actual rig. Firstly because hand holding a camera for any length of time is very difficult, even with light cameras. And if those cameras are rigged up with accessories then even more so. Using a shoulder brace etc wouldn't give the same freedom of movement as being able to move the camera in free space like you can with an arm based rig. The second reason is that even if cameras had the ability to use post stabilisation software built in, or if the NLE based stabilisation software gets better there is one fundamental flaw that they cannot cope with. The motion blur from a really shakey shot. This usually messes up most shot stabilisations in software unless the shot was relatively stable to begin with, with only slow moving instability. I think you are right about the smaller rigs though. These days there is no reason to assume that the equipment should be short on features just because the cameras may be smaller or less expensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Charles Papert Posted February 7, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 would love to see before and after processing of this clip: http://vimeo.com/9334772 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Alfeo Dixon SOC Posted February 7, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 http://vimeo.com/9334772 @ 3:07 add sound effects of puking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Wyndham Posted February 7, 2011 Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 Is this a good replacement for the Adidas advert?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Tomas Riuka Posted February 7, 2011 Author Premium Members Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 Good one Charles.... how do you think they did that? usual steadicam stabilized in post, or steadicam with gyros ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members RonBaldwin Posted February 7, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted February 7, 2011 I am honored and happy that my skinny butt and the lube of the century made the list! Maybe next big thing for steadicam should be not working for scale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Charles Papert Posted February 8, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 I have to think that was shot with either a handheld stabilizer or a Pilot-sized one (Glidecam, whatever), considering the running speed and stamina. I'd be surprised if gyros were involved for those reasons. Would be interested to know the details and just how funky the shots looks before they were fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Brian Freesh Posted February 8, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 I've seen that before... John Ford shot that with a Flyer and a Red One. I saw the raw footage about a year ago. It was stable as hell, but it's certainly possible it has been further stabilized since. Hell, it's possible the raw footage I saw was actually stabilized, but I was told it was not. I'd forgotten about this. Regardless of post stabilization, John did a fantastic job and has great stamina! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members RonBaldwin Posted February 8, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Regardless of post stabilization, John did a fantastic job and has great stamina! A good op and in good shape?! I hate him. I pride myself in being neither. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Kevin Andrews SOC Posted February 8, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 I thought segway mount for sure until I saw the stairs!!! Oh mama! If that is not post stabilized, I'm quitting the business. That was cool. And at 1:23 there is a guy trying to catch a football that crosses in front of the operator! The ball ended up in the drink :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Kevin Andrews SOC Posted February 8, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Ok, now you've peaked my interest. Check out the shot at 2:01 in this video from the same company. HAS to be post effected. http://vimeo.com/9331781 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Tomas Riuka Posted February 8, 2011 Author Premium Members Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 definintely stabilized... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Sydney Seeber Posted February 9, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 They don't just use a Flyer, googling their company found a couple of images with gyros on cars and such. I wouldn't be surprised if they used all sorts of things... Steadicams, cars, bikes, RC helicopters, etc. With all the types of gyros out there a lot can be accomplished. They've also got some sort of secret squirrel post production patent going on although I couldn't tell if it was their patent or someone else's and they're just using the software. The info on that was a tad shaky at best, could be wrong. There's definitely a lot of post computer work. It absolutely looks top notch overall. If they're shooting in 4K super wide, there's a LOT of room to crop down to HD in that. The image is clearly not to scale as who has a 4K monitor to surf the internets with, but I made the ratios from the inner HD square to the outer digital cinema 4K resolution accurate. Image warping eliminates nearly all of the traditional glitchiness associated with traditional post stabilizing software such as Final Cut's low end Smoothcam effect, but it takes much longer to post. At the moment that option is pretty expensive as well, but the results are impressive. So yeah... It's not long now until that stabilizing box is on the market. A couple of mini gyros to keep it level (Already an option) and/or moving mirrors (Already in lower end cameras but with slightly reduced image quality) with cutting edge post production will probably make it into the marketplace within the next 5 years or so. On the other hand I doubt a traditional operator would be replaced in many cases as there's a lot that a traditional rig brings to the table that a gyrobox could not. I see it as another tool in the box and may replace an operator on jobs here and there but not overall. Just my .375 Dinar (BAH) from a guy with not a lot of high end steadicam production experience but a whole lotta high end post production background. Check out this guy's rig. It's DIY and pretty impressive for a home built setup. http://helivideo.com/ I wouldn't be at all surprised if some improvement on/variation of that was used in the making of those videos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Michael Wilson Posted February 16, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted February 16, 2011 Those jogging shots looked pretty nice, but also a little weird. Under the park benches, the foliage and all the other items that passed by looked affected. Liked they lacked parallax or something. Looked almost like a still photos. It's not so, umm, "organic" if you will. Also you couldn't do very dynamic shots where actors get closer or further from the camera. A lot of calculation on set would have to be done in order to make the crop work without cropping out the actor's head if they were to approach the lens. So the biggest sensors now are 4k-5k. People will be finishing and posting in 4k in next few years as well. Theaters will be 4k and so will home television. Question about post stabilization. Is it a matter of cropping in and key framing? Or can the whole frame be stabilized without cropping in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Sydney Seeber Posted February 17, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted February 17, 2011 no matter what form of stabilization is used, a little cropping is going to be necessary. It works essentially by reversing the image motion, making the frame move and anchoring the content in place. Zooming into the image (Cropping) makes the edges invisible in the frame giving the perception of stability but a loss in resolution. Not really a problem when going from 4K to 1080p, although the Red sensor doesn't have the greatest resolution on the market, so I don't think I'd take it to extremes. More complex systems can take it a step further by warping and interpolating the content which can eliminate a lot of the jagged edges and odd digital artifacts created by the stabilization process. The whole process is best done with very deep depth of field. At the same time, footage from a novice operator can be made to look like a pro when jumping resolutions like that unless said operator makes some serious errors. Very little zooming is needed to correct slight errors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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