Premium Members Brian Freesh Posted March 17, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 Thank you Frank for the update. I forgot the thought process of that battery was for 24v. I was thinking it would be nice to have 12v in Parallel. The option to do either would be ideal, and easy to accomplish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Jerry Holway Posted March 17, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 what does the zephyr sled weigh? Say with it's lcd monitor and an hc-90? rb About six pounds. (30 lb arm and 24 lb payload.) A few hundred words about payload (not to you Ron, you know all this stuff) - It would be tough to balance the sled nicely with 24 lbs of camera - You might be able to extend the main post long enough, but it would be less fun to fly. A more reasonable top camera weight would be in the 20 pound range, with four pounds of extra weight added to the monitor and battery rods for gimbal placement and increased inertia for a lovely feel and gimbal placement. I personally haven't had a Zephyr to play with, along with a scale to weigh all the options, but adding those small Merlin weights to the base to increase inertia is a very nice way to fly, regardless of camera weight. That I have tried and used at workshops. I'm hoping for a bracket to add those weights to the stage when the camera is hyper-light, so the gimbal can be closer to the stage - It's a great feature of the Pilot, BTW... missing it in the Zephyr - There are, I believe, threaded holes in the stage for mounting such a bracket, (Mark please look under the hood of your Zephyr to confirm this rumor). It should be fairly easy to make such a bracket. Alternately, adding weights to the camera dovetail plate may be possible when the camera is light and small (we do this for Tango™, where there is n camera on the "master" sled). It should be clear to all that there is a nice ratio of camera weight to counterbalance weights that gets the gimbal is a nice spot fairly close to the stage, with the post fairly short. Because these new arms can carry a payload that varies 500% or so, we need an easy way to add mass top or bottom to get back towards that sweet ratio. Old arms maybe had a range of 200% from lightest to heaviest camera, so adding mass here and there was not so critical. Adding batteries is clumsy from the point of view of versatility - can't add one both front and back, need cables, takes up a lot of room (modern batteries are light). If you need the power, of course, add the battery, but if you need more mass than that, it's great to have the versatility of accessory weights. And these weights are part of the total payload... Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Mark Schlicher Posted March 17, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 I've started another thread with photos and will add my direct observations there. Looking like I might get some time tonight to start. I'm on an edit today (in fact for the next several weeks). Frank, thanks for the clarification about the 24V option. The second battery hanger is equally about (maybe more about, for my uses and I suspect others') hot-swapping for RED, for carrying more battery power for heavier, more power-hungry HD cameras, and for more flexible distribution of masses, given the large variety of cameras (from 5D's to Varicams, etc.) that I anticipate being asked to fly. In any case, it is welcome news that it hasn't been shelved. As for "when" or even "if" I would be wanting such a bracket...well, frankly it depends on the the actual design and the pricing. I have to run it through my cost/benefit filter, based on the design of the actual unit. Does it address dynamic balance? How and where does it mount? Is it a second, separate mount or a replacement double-mount? Until then it's all hypothetical. The camera payload vs. overall lift did throw me for a loop. What had tipped me over in favor of the Zephyr was that increase to 24lbs. This can be the difference between flying a heavier HD camera or a reasonably-kitted RED or not. So the 24lb payload really got my attention. I was surprised when it started to seem that flying a 24lb camera "might" involve some big compromises in post length, if the arm and gimbal are only rated for 30lbs. But I don't want to continue speculate. That is the crux of the real-world testing I plan to do. None of this is a deal-breaker for me, to be clear. I've always recognized that the Zephyr is not an Archer 2 and I don't expect it to offer the same features. It's appropriate to look at it as a huge and welcome upgrade to the Flyer. OK, back to my edit... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members RonBaldwin Posted March 17, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted March 17, 2011 About six pounds. (30 lb arm and 24 lb payload.) thanks Jerry...6 lbs is light! I wasn't sure if that number included a battery, and what kind of battery (idx/ab). The lightest I can get my pro2 down to with a nebtek and one hc-90 is 14 lbs. I don't think I'd want to fly a camera lighter than 15lbs unless I had a lighter sled/arm combo. rb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Rush Posted March 18, 2011 Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 Thank you Frank for the update. I forgot the thought process of that battery was for 24v. I was thinking it would be nice to have 12v in Parallel. The option to do either would be ideal, and easy to accomplish. Brian The dual 12 volt is in the design. Still olan to finalize by NAB. Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Amando Crespo Posted March 18, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 Good question about. But.. Why 24 volts for a sled designed for video or low weigh cameras?... Do you want more weigh on board?... Do you want fly Zephyr with Red-one, Alexa, Arri 435 on board?.... (working with G-30/40 arm, of course) MISTAKE!. This sled is designed for it work. Try to force limits of it capacity is a big mistake. For this work, are others models like ARCHER2 to ULTRA2. Is the right way. I know, the Zephyr´s price is really sexy, but isn´t the right solution to fly medium-big cameras. An smile fron Spain. Hi Amando, Congratulations on your new purchase ! I think this is a great sled for cameras like the ARRI 416, which uses 24 volts, now while it does have great onboard batteries, it is important to have the option to power it off your sled. Besides which, if I were to buy one, I would certainly like the option of 24 volt power, since the 24 lbs payload now allows you to use the ARRI 235 onboard as well. It is a dream running rig for 35mm. Post some pictures please ! Regards Sanjay Sami i think with all my respect, for Arri416 or... It sould be better an ARCHER... It´s not only arm capacity... It´s important the plate, gimbal... Every sled has its limits. Of course, ZEPHYR with G-40/50 could be the dreamed solution (I´m thinking in it price)...But not, I´m sorry, but not... It is not the time to speak about inertial pans, static balance, dynamic b., etc... Zephyr is GREAT, but not for ALL weigh cameras... What I do with my ULTRA2 if ZEPHIR do the same?... Friends... Think about this. May be I was wrong, but this is my post about this. An smile and best wishes for Japan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Mark Schlicher Posted March 18, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted March 18, 2011 Jerry, Yes, two threaded holes on the bottom side of the top stage. Tried to upload a pic but couldn't for some reason... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members RonBaldwin Posted March 19, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 About six pounds. (30 lb arm and 24 lb payload.) thanks Jerry...6 lbs is light! I wasn't sure if that number included a battery, and what kind of battery (idx/ab). The lightest I can get my pro2 down to with a nebtek and one hc-90 is 14 lbs. I don't think I'd want to fly a camera lighter than 15lbs unless I had a lighter sled/arm combo. rb Just saw Mark's other thread -- looks like the sled is just under 6.5 lbs without a battery, so it would be around 8 lbs with a batt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Jerry Holway Posted March 19, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 Ron, that's right... I just looked at the arm lift minus "payload" on the brochure to get the sled weight - sorry about the confusion. I'll double check how that number was calculated... but about 8 lbs with battery is right. Regardless, Mark can load up his sled with battery and arm and see what the camera (and accessories) max payload is. I'd do it if I had one in hand... Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Mark Schlicher Posted March 19, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted March 19, 2011 Geez...it's a beautiful Saturday, people...let's just all go outside and play. ;-) OK OK, I borrowed a camera and will do the promised tests today or tomorrow morning. But one thing is clear: the "official" published math doesn't add up! With a 24lb camera/AKS payload and a 6lb sled and 30lb arm lift capacity...that would allow a battery of...ahem...zero pounds. I wonder if the 30lb lift spec is a copy-editing error, perhaps a leftover from the old Flyer arm that the Zephyr was originally shown with? Anybody? Buehler? My real-world test will be "how much can the arm lift, and still float level"? We shall see... Ron, that's right... I just looked at the arm lift minus "payload" on the brochure to get the sled weight - sorry about the confusion. I'll double check how that number was calculated... but about 8 lbs with battery is right. Regardless, Mark can load up his sled with battery and arm and see what the camera (and accessories) max payload is. I'd do it if I had one in hand... Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Erik Brul Posted May 3, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted May 3, 2011 Well.. was looking at the website again, and now it says this: •9 to 23lbs.(4 to 10.4kg) net camera weight This is in the price pdf also.. I think Mark his fine tests and reporting back to Tiffen caused this adjustment? The starting weight is also modified. This was already going on with the Flyer LE arm.. that arm was nice working from 8 lbs and more .. and not the quoted 5 lbs. This Zephyr rig caused a lot of talking :ph34r: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Mark Schlicher Posted May 8, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted May 8, 2011 Tiffen's new published specs do conform to what I found in my testing. So, I guess it's official now. B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Mark Schlicher Posted May 10, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted May 10, 2011 Now that Tiffen has officially revised their payload lift specifications to 9-23lbs (which precisely confirm the payload testing I did), a couple of personal observations and opinions. If you are planning to mostly use smaller cameras, and prefer to work without a weight plate (for documentary/event work, etc.), then the Pilot or perhaps the new Scout are your choices. The Zephyr requires a weight plate, or other weight, for the 6-7 pound cameras such as the HVX200, HPX170 to bring them up to 9lbs or more. DSLR's, forget it without a weight plate! What about the well-known Stillmotion Youtube Zephyr test-drive video from last year? They must have been using a Flyer or Pilot arm. If you are working at the high end of the payload range, you may need to use a longer post than you expected, in order to keep the total weight down, to keep the arm within its capabilities. Tiffen has removed the maximum 30lb arm lift spec from its Zephyr page, and from my experience it appears to be in the 34-36 lb range. This translates to a 23lb camera/aks, 6 1/2 lb sled, and 5lbs of battery, Merlin intertial weights, and everything else. The stock SD monitor is less than a pound, so a heavier HD monitor weight may need to be subtracted from "everything else". Bottom line, the Zephyr is a great little system with beautifully upgraded arm, sled and vest. The payload can stretch you into territory that includes most broadcast cameras and many RED configurations, which overlaps into the lower end of Archer 2 territory (at 1/3 the price), albeit with some compromises. If you want to go with lighter cameras, buy a weight plate or stick with the Pilot or Scout. You can consider the 9 to 23lb net camera payload specs to be accurate, with no more than a half-pound of "fudge factor" in either direction (depending on your specific arm.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members RonBaldwin Posted May 10, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted May 10, 2011 I guess when using a dslr...remote focus/motor, the blackmagic, mattebox, some redrock bracketry and a battery to power it all will easily get you to 9 lbs anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Mark Schlicher Posted May 10, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted May 10, 2011 Very true...if that's the configuration you're using. I'd wager that it still might be on the light side, though. Get that puppy into the 15 lb range with a weight plate and now you're cooking! If it's just a 5D/60D/7D with a wide angle zoom, internal battery and lens hood, (documentary/low-budget music video/wedding/event shooting), fuggedaboutit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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