Another Helicopter Crash with Film Crew

[Nicholas M. Chopp]

I think any Director who is planning on having aerial footage from a manned chopper should be required to have spent a bit of time IN a chopper, doing some of the positively insane things they ask for.

[MattWyer]

As we all have experienced directors, or anyone pushed by them, tend to forget about safty when they want to get the most "spectacular shot of the world!!"

I don't know a whole lot about piloting helicopters but it in the recent years I have done 3 or 4 helicopter shots, ofcourse not with a steadicam, and everytime before the flight I spoke to the pilots and told them that I don't care what the director says safety is the priority during the flight! No matter how spectacular it could look!

Nicolas

 

 

I think that the majority of helicopter accidents when filming involve a helicopter company/pilot who does not regularly do filming work. The pilot will be someone who spends his days herding 'suits' around the city at normal altitudes/speeds giving the the smooth ride experience. Then he's given a filming job - low height/faster/etc and the ego takes hold. He allows a pushy (and most of them are) director to make him go faster and lower (read dangerous) and the inevietable happens with tears all round. Helicopters are not inherantly dangerous (the Robinson R22 has one of the best safety records in the world, fixed wing or rotary) and scaremongering people with tales of "10,000 parts all waiting to fail" doesn't help either. Oh, and of course, if the engine fails we all die. Yeah right!

 

Leigh -You're right, gyros ar a much better option. Most modern systems incorporate gyros. I'm a UK based Steadicam op that also does regular aerial work from helicopters (not steadi!). I'm also a PPL (Helicopters).The system we use has a 5 axis, gyro stabilised mount, as do WESCAM, FLIR and other systems. See www.flyingtv.co.uk. I've never done it but i can imagine that operating Steadi in a helicopter is much like operating on a listing ship but worse. But to agree to do such a thing would be unthinkable. A sure recipe for disaster.

[Nicholas M. Chopp]

"Flying a helicopter is one of the single most unnatural experiences of your life. It is a design that, by all rights, shouldn't fly at all."

Dr. Steven L Reagles, Professor (former CI on multiple fixed and rotary wing aircraft)

 

It's just a recipe for disaster, particularly the situation Wyer outlined. Just dangerous all around.

[Eric Fletcher S.O.C.]

"Flying a helicopter is one of the single most unnatural experiences of your life. It is a design that, by all rights, shouldn't fly at all."

Dr. Steven L Reagles, Professor (former CI on multiple fixed and rotary wing aircraft)

 

It's just a recipe for disaster, particularly the situation Wyer outlined. Just dangerous all around.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Fine it's not your cup of tea, doesn't mean that it's not done all the time, safely. The Safest single engine aircraft of all time just happens to be the Bell 206 series, The JetRanger helicopter.

[Nicholas M. Chopp]

Fine it's not your cup of tea, doesn't mean that it's not done all the time, safely.  The Safest single engine aircraft of all time just happens to be the Bell 206 series, The JetRanger helicopter.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I was referring more to filming via helicopter being a recipe for disaster. :-)

[mattgrant]

I have done a few shoots from helicopters. I have always had the camera on my shoulder. The most scary thing is that my harness is then connected to the inside of the helicopter. I don't think I would be able to disconnect it. It would take the pilot and a knife to get me out if we ditched.

 

I had to turn down a shoot recently, and the guy who went instead ended up in ditching in the sea in the helicopter. Fortunately he was okay apart from some minor injuries (the heli was very low at the time) This was in another country which doen't seem to have so much concern for H&S, and as far as I know, it was actually a police helicopter, but a relitavely new pilot who fancied showing off.

[Kareem La Vaullee]

I have always been fascinated by Helicopters, but the problem is that they can crash even without an engine or rotors failure,

 

There is an Aerodynamical phenomenon called LTE (for Loss of Tail-rotor Effectiveness)

 

To show it I've put a video on my Server :

 

http://homepage.mac.com/klavaullee/Helicopters/

 

Hopefully this time it ended well but it's extremely scary

 

More about LTE here : http://www.dynamicflight.com/aerodynamics/loss_tail_eff/

From what I've found LTE caused a great number of Helicopter crashes...

 

Even with all that I am thinking about learning how to fly with Helicopters, for the moment I keep learning on a as accurate as possible Professional Flight Simulator Program and I'm getting better and better.

 

K.

[Marc Abernathy]

interesting read and dynamic video! thanks for posting Kareem!

[Hervé Colosio]

very impressive kareem .

 

i have fly many times on many helicopteres , and one time we have had a little problem called "vortex effect" it's when the helicopter comes back in it's own turbulences .

we were lucky because we were at 600 meters hight , but the same thing at 50 meters and we were down !

it was on a jet ranger II , but this thing can arrive with all helicopters .

[David Allen Grove]

1 Dead, 2 Injured In Helicopter Crash in Iowa on Tom Arnold movie.

 

 

 

Pilot, Producer and Photographer were on Board"

 

 

 

http://www.kcci.com/news/9454864/detail.html

 

 

 

Scary thing is I got a call for this job because I'm orginally from Iowa.

 

 

 

Although I would have never gotten into the helicopter...

 

 

 

Sad....

[Michael Stumpf]

I also got the call for this shoot.

 

Jeff Hunt ended up doing the show.

 

However, my regular 1st AC is the "A" Camera 1st AC on this show in

Iowa that had the accident yesterday.

 

He just called me this morning.

 

This is another example of how NOT to make a film.

My assistant told me the whole story, here's the deal in as brief as I can be:

 

First off, Jeff Hunt is alive and well, but thanking God for it every minute as

we speak.

The helicopter was rigged with a Tyler mount, this was NOT a steadicam in the

helicopter shot. However, Jeff asked and WANTED to do the shot in the helicopter

with the Tyler mount. However, the DP (Dan Stoloff) told him NO, that he needed

him over on 1st Unit.

 

The Producers decided to hire a gentleman out of Kansas City named Roland.

Roland was 50. He had a wife and two kids.

Roland came over to do this shot as a dayplayer and it was his first and only day on

the show.

 

My assistant Greg (the 1st AC) met Roland the day before and got him all the gear.

He mentioned how nice of a guy he was.

 

Here's what happened.

In the interest of saving money, the producers decided to hire a "friend" who was a pilot

but primarily worked as a CROP DUSTER, and did basically no aerial photography.

This crop duster gentleman is 72 years old!!!

 

The shot required him to fly close to power lines. This gentleman does crop dusting in

this area was was FAMILIAR with the power line.

On the VERY FIRST MAGAZINE he got too close and hit the power lines sending the chopper down!

 

Greg (1st AC) sent the loader to go off and pull focus on the shot. His loader saw the whole thing.

The Tyler Mount essentially crushed the chest of Roland upon impact with the ground. It's still unclear

if he was killed instantly or lived for a handful of minutes.

The Producer and his 72 year old Crop Duster pilot are still in critical condition!

 

Here's the outrage in this all. The other producers WANTED TO KEEP FILMING and FINISH the DAY!

 

Even before they heard if anybody had died (the accident took place 3 miles from the 1st unit)

they "took a vote" of the crew to see who was willing and wanting to continue

after the producer's gave a speech saying, "this project has been in the making for

10 years and they'd want us to finish."

 

Greg told me he said, "are you F--king kidding? why don't we see if everybody is okay."

He also said, "has anybody heard from (the loader...don't remember his name) he might

be dead." Upon hearing that Roland had died, the camera, grip and electric crew walk off.

 

And get this, the producers in their kind and generous ways gave the crew all of a few hours to grieve, as

they are now filming TODAY (Saturday) with 2 units to "make up for the lost scenes" from yesterday!!

 

They finish the film Monday July 3rd!

 

My assistant went to the accident scene with the NTSB investigators as, unbelievably, the mag on the camera stayed intact and the NTSB wanted the film, so Greg had to go to the scene and remove the mag and download the film. He took pictures of the site and has them. I told him to be sure to get

me copies as we ALL needed to see AGAIN, why we don't go up in HELICOPTERS to get shots that

overzealous directors and producers want. That's what Wescam's are for.

 

We really need regulations on helicopter/aerial photography. We don't need more people

dying unnecessarily in the name of "getting a shot".

 

God be with Roland and his family as well as give the producer and pilot the strength to pull through.

Hopefully if they do, they'll speak to producers/directors and champion the cause of

having regulations on helicopter/aerial photography.

[Fernando Quinones]

HI Guys Over Here.

 

First Is very interested for me this article because My other Job apart of been a steadicam OP. is had been a HElicopter Instructor & Pilot. I am not an Old HElicopter Pilot ( About 7 Years now, 3 been an instructor) but I want to post some good things that may be could explain some wrong miscomceptions about HElicopters.

 

First: Helicopter are the Machine that Flies in the World that safe more lives than any other Aircraft in the World. So Of course is a machine And the Proble is that is piloted by Human. 87% of all aircraft Accidents had been made by Pilot Error. This Means that They had an accident because a PILOT.

 

So Thats why Helicopters Companys & Of Course People that do Aerial Filming had to be very experience person and with a great training record. Training it is whats make diference between a good pilot and a great Pilot. Always when you going to do a Aereal shooting ask the Pilot about his experience doing filming and discuss any ditail of the shoot. Do not until you are on the air to discuss what you want to do and atc.

 

Second:For you guys with all my respect to you and with my knoledge by know, there is a misconception about which HElo is more safest than Other. I was on one of my many Trainings on The Robinson Helicopter Factory on Torrance CA on Febrary 2004 and Talking about Engine failures R-44 has the History of 0 engine failures in all their life. This helo get it certification in 1993, So I have to talk about Piston & turbine. Bell Jet ranger Became the most popular selling helicopter in 80's. Now that history change Robinson R-44 become in the Top Selling Helicopter in the World and Also the Most Popular One. Recently Discovery Channel Made a Documentary About the 10 best helicopters in the World, Robinson ended #2 number 1 was the UH-60(Black hawk) Military Twin engine HElo compare with a 4 seat Piston Helicopter.

 

The main diference between Helicopter are if they are Turbine or Piston. In simple words If you are going to do a filming in a helicopter one of the important things is weight. Example If you have to do a Shooting in a BEll Jet Ranger this helo has his MAx gross weight and on many filming scene director, DP even producer wants to be on The helicopter. Try as much as posible to make the HElicopter lighter because this make a Great difference to the Pilot. Remember also Pilot has the Final Authority of the Aircraft not the Director, Thats why in the Army they make a new rank of warrant officers that became Pilot, Even If the President of the US is in the Aircraft the Final authority is on the Pilot in Command. So Every Helicopter is a great machine just depend in Who is the Pilot, who are the Company doing manteinance(Extremely important) and what type of job you are going to do.

 

Take and example the Differences between every Steadicam we use. You know PRO, Tiffen, MK-v etc. Helicopters are the same you choose which is better for the type of work you are doing. One thing I can Tell you If you are doing Filming Please Do not Use R-44 Helicopter if for example you are using a ARRi 435 with all the gadjets, batteries Etc. and do not think in put inside an assistant and the Director, Insane!!! So this is a great Helicopter but it is a lite Helicopter. NOw I would do it but with out The Director & assistant & of course with the most necessary equipment I need. This means Finally that if you need to put all this people inside you need a Bigger machine like the Eurocopter or BEll 407. Even the Jet ranger has it limitations.

 

Finally There a lot of conditions that affect ahelicopter on flight but if you have a good well trained pilot he would handle it. Ex LTE (Loss of Tail Rotor Efectiveness) is a condition that occurs on helicoppters but you can recover from it and is simple to recover. So if the pilot have the good training he will handle it as simple as flying it. But difference is about "Vortex Effect" or Settling with Power this means that the Helo is been caugh in his own downwash. this condition mostly occurs on down wind condition with speed less than 30 knots and of course you can recover but you need altitude because if you do not have altitude and you enter on Settling with power you are going to crash. So you guys please do not ask to a pilot to Hover down wing for a shooting if you are less than 1500 feet from ground, you always if you are low my recomendation is kee moving the helicoppter at least 60knots for filming if you are low like 300 feet or less; and if you need to hover for some reason tha pilot has to be up wind always and not descending. This condition can happen in any helicopter does not matter if is turbien or Piston. So There are a lot of explanation that I can share with you guys but may be you would like to go to how stuff works and have a more detailed explanation. For other question may be you can begin taking Helo classes, is easy but a little more complicated than flying a steadicam. The thing that has in common is that you need experience & good training to become a master. So If one of my other loves apart of been an Steadicam OP for 10 YEars. I am 34 right NOw and the Only final thing that I can Tell you Do not ever try to put a Steadicam On a Helicopter they are uncompatible. For now By An great Discussion.

 

FErnando Q

Puerto Rico

Steadicam OP.

[RonBaldwin]

just say no. regardless of what the cause was too many have died, period.

 

rb

[Dan Coplan]

Not having any idea what's considered safe and unsafe, I've done a handful of helicopter shots (not Steadicam). Is there a basic set of guidelines someone can post as to what to ask/look for when asked to do a helicopter shot? A checklist of some sort whereby if all the answers are positive, you can feel reasonably safe to go forth but if any of the answers come back as negative you just walk away?

 

Dan

[Daniel Stilling DFF]

I agree with Ron, just say no.

 

Aircraft are great and safe machines, doing what they do, which is transporting people and cargo from point A to point B. Shooting is another realm, where safety gets compromised really easy.

 

Fernando has great points about weight and pilot experience. That goes to show you that it is very simple to be in danger. Just say no...