Premium Members Alan Rencher Posted July 28, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted July 28, 2011 Does anyone have a rig that is capable of flying a Red package available for rent? I own a pilot, but my clients have all been shooting Red lately, and I have been scrambling to buy a Zephyr. In the meantime, I need to find someone to rent from. Let me know your day and weekend rate. Give me a call: 323.213.9427 or email: alanjrencher@gmail.com Website: http://alanrencher.com Steadicam Operators Association: http://www.steadicam-ops.com/database/soaDetailList.php?detailID=927 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Sydney Seeber Posted July 29, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 sorry don't have a rig I'd want to rent, but I do have a question. I happened to click on your SOA link... That's 250 what now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members RonBaldwin Posted July 29, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 I noticed that as well. At least at $17/hr he's $5 more than the guy at the In N Out drive through...but without benefits. In all seriousness, do pilots really only rent for $75/day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Tom Wills Posted July 29, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 Well, I used to rent my homebuilt rig (which had a Pilot arm and vest) for $150 a day, and most rentals seem to be in the $180-200 range. So $75 is a bit low. It's so difficult to set rates when you're working with that kind of rig though. Producers dont want to pay you anything, and yet you always end up working as a human tripod. (at least the cameras are pretty light!) Shooting too high with your rates turns off most producers, and shooting too low turns off the few sensible ones. You just can't win! A piece of advice from someone who was in your shoes a bit ago (had a little rig and a rental EFP I could use): especially when you're going to be working at 2 different levels of production (the Pilot being prosumer level, DSLRs and all that stuff, and REDs and full rIgs), list your rates as "Call". A lot of people do. It allows you to start from scratch with every negotiation, and get the best deal for every kind of work. Sorry for the off topic digression, hope you find a rig that'll work for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Caleb Ennis Posted July 29, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 That does seem low... I would agree with Tom tho with putting your rates on SOA as call/call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Sydney Seeber Posted July 29, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 It's so difficult to set rates when you're working with that kind of rig though. Producers dont want to pay you anything, and yet you always end up working as a human tripod. Difficult maybe, but you have no choice. With the help of my gigantic smartphone, I came up with $75/day rental for a Pilot. That's only part of the problem. An ENG/EFP camera operator who brings nothing to the job (Including skill) will get a Los Angeles rate more than twice what Alan here posted. I do EFP work here and there, I know what they really need from me. Someone who owns a Steadicam rig should be more skilled in basic operating than the average camera operator. Rental on a full sized rig (Not even including wireless ANYthing) puts him in the hole financially by several hundred after his day rate, so I am of the opinion that discussion of this is valid. Don't sell yourself short there Alan. Rates like that put you into the Top Ramen category. If the "Producer" doesn't want to pay you anything they are either a terrible producer or a filthy leach. Stay the fuck away from both. They will not help you get better jobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Eric Fletcher S.O.C. Posted July 29, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 Does anyone have a rig that is capable of flying a Red package available for rent? I own a pilot, but my clients have all been shooting Red lately, and I have been scrambling to buy a Zephyr. In the meantime, I need to find someone to rent from. Let me know your day and weekend rate. Give me a call: 323.213.9427 or email: alanjrencher@gmail.com Website: http://alanrencher.com Steadicam Operators Association: http://www.steadicam-ops.com/database/soaDetailList.php?detailID=927 Are you kidding me? $250/10???? Nice to know that you're one of "Those guys" PA's are making that sort of rate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Alan Rencher Posted August 4, 2011 Author Premium Members Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 I know I'm going to get a lot of flak for this, but Steadicam operators can be some of the pissy-est people sometimes. I didn't think I was making a thread just to defend myself, but hear me out I guess. A Pilot only rents out for about $175/Day, and the types of productions that use it are all the DSLR crowd. It's mostly students, micro-budget and no-budget projects. There is no way that I can swing more than $300-$350 using a pilot. Usually, anyone with a budget bigger than that is shooting Red, F3, or requires all kinds of AKS that will overload me, which puts me out of the game. Most of these productions won't even chip-in the extra $80 to rent a Bartech. They just say that they don't need follow focus. I did think that was good advice about just putting Call/Call, so I went ahead and updated that, thanks. Those were old rates that I was using while working for mostly experience, and should have been updated. I don't know what kind of PA rates you guys are talking about, but most PA's only make about $125 for 12 hours. It sucks, but it's true. I've PA'ed before, and I know a lot of PA's. Of course, I've worked on a couple high-end commercials that were paying PA's $200/Day, but those are commercials. Just to put the record straight, I work just as hard as any of you to hone my craft, and try to get what I deserve. We can't all start off by asking for $1,000/Day. I'm working my way up from nothing, and soon I'll be out of the micro-budget scene, but I have to pay my dues first just like many of you have. You would think that some people would remember how hard it was for them and actually show some empathy. I would like to say thank you to the people who continually give me good advice and actually try to guide me in the right direction as opposed to treating me like a scab. Remember, I'm on your side, but I guess I'll be jaded one day soon when I look on the forum at the next guy like me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Mark Schlicher Posted August 4, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 Alan, It definitely is a different world when trying to make a living, and hone your craft, with a small rig. Keep fighting for the best rates you can, given your market niche and limitations of the rig. Keep working toward the day you don't have to say "yes" to the crappy gigs. And keep in mind that, even at that level, if you are good at what you do, the producers may have more than they want you to believe. As for any flack you feel you are getting, it can be tempting to treat every newbie, every small rig operator, as unserious. It's human nature, I guess. Just make sure you are being serious in every aspect of your process. You can't control people's perceptions, but you can control your own approach. Keep learning, absorb the good advice, and keep working at it. Good luck, and fly safe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Brant S. Fagan SOC Posted August 4, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted August 4, 2011 Try not getting caught up in the "sound" of the responses you get here, but rather try to learn from the substance of the messages. Please don't take it personally if folks on here are tired of being undercut. Many people have fought long and hard-won battles to establish and maintain a rate structure that is comensurate with the skills, experience and equipment that we as Steadicam Operators bring to each job. You have to pick and choose your battles as you learn and grow as an operator but keep the goals in sight and in sharp focus as you make deals and hone your craft. There is an art to the deal and a separate yet still connected art of the art: remember that this is a career, not a hobby or charity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Alan Rencher Posted August 5, 2011 Author Premium Members Report Share Posted August 5, 2011 Brant, I'm not undercutting anybody. Undercutting would mean that I am taking work from other operators because I'm so much cheaper. I haven't taken one job from any of you. Until recently, I've only been doing Student projects and other ultra-low / no-budget projects. I was building experience and building my reel. Now that I have a reel and experience, I've raised my rate. I just graduated from college in December. Can no one understand what it means to work your way up? Are you telling me you never started from scratch with no resources to start with awesome equipment? I have been taking all the great advice I've been getting, but it's hard to find substance in some messages: Are you kidding me? $250/10???? Nice to know that you're one of "Those guys" PA's are making that sort of rate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Brant S. Fagan SOC Posted August 6, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted August 6, 2011 Wait one. There's a difference between undercutting and not asking the going rate. Yes, I clearly remember starting out with old gear, no experience, and no contacts. I also remember a Workshop Instructor clearly reminding us to ask what we are worth otherwise we diminish our own selfworth. Take each opportunity to gain more experience and grow your rate to match. I feel it's appropriate to ask for a higher rate while knowing you can 'settle' for less. You get more and the client got something back. Sure, negotiating is hard work, but so is the job of a Steadicam operator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Dennis Noyes Posted August 19, 2011 Premium Members Report Share Posted August 19, 2011 I agree, make your reel!! don't let some of these comments doubt what you are doing, you will know when you are past low budget jobs, and you won't take them. Good luck Brant, I'm not undercutting anybody. Undercutting would mean that I am taking work from other operators because I'm so much cheaper. I haven't taken one job from any of you. Until recently, I've only been doing Student projects and other ultra-low / no-budget projects. I was building experience and building my reel. Now that I have a reel and experience, I've raised my rate. I just graduated from college in December. Can no one understand what it means to work your way up? Are you telling me you never started from scratch with no resources to start with awesome equipment? I have been taking all the great advice I've been getting, but it's hard to find substance in some messages: Are you kidding me? $250/10???? Nice to know that you're one of "Those guys" PA's are making that sort of rate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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