G50X and G70X arm

[JobScholtze]

More importantly, to Rob's question, yes, the stiction issue is gone.

 

I wish that the stiction issue would have actually been acknowledged by Tiffen when it was happening to people with the normal G series arms. I lost a lot of sleep over that bouncing arm. I hope some people at tiffen did too.

I CANT AGREE MORE

[James Davis]

I've already messaged Robin who is based over here in England about any possible opportunity for an upgrade or a trade in, it is a frustrating design flaw in the arm when traveling at slower speeds and I hope Tiffen are prepared to help out current G50 owners.

[Fabrizio Sciarra SOC ACO]

I've already messaged Robin who is based over here in England about any possible opportunity for an upgrade or a trade in, it is a frustrating design flaw in the arm when traveling at slower speeds and I hope Tiffen are prepared to help out current G50 owners.

 

Sure, they can sell you a G50X

[Jerry Holway]

Matteo - Yes, there are bearing upgrades for both arms.

 

All- many sleepless nights for many of us. The original G-50's did not exhibit the stiction; some of the later production arms never had it, others had it more. The G-70's had it to a much less extent (mine, for instance, is essentially nil).

 

And in my absolute last response to Eric about this:

 

Please read the patent from 1995, where the term isoelastic is used and defined in terms of a Steadicam arm.

 

It's always been used the same way by me to explain the same concept.

 

I don't know where, or care where or how, you got the other "definitions" or your own version of it, nor do I understand your claim that iso-elastic is only a term for economics.

 

It's an arm. It's a term we've been using consistently since 1995 to describe.... but enough.

 

More importantly, what's your point? What does it have to do with operating?

 

The new arms behave beautifully, no matter what you call it, or I call it.

 

The G-50X and G-70X arms have been shipping since late November. Ops who have bought them love them. So, again, I urge everyone to give them a try.

 

Jerry

[Richard James Lewis]

I think any upgrades to the new arms for previous owners should be totally free. You've already spent the $17k on an arm that doesn't work properly. Do they really expect you to just write off your investment and buy a new one?

 

Tiffen really confuse me sometimes, it's really not the way to treat customers with products of this nature. If it doesn't work properly then its not good enough to warrant the price tag. I heard the upgrades for the original G-70 ran at thousands. These arms cost a fraction of what they are sold for to produce, and you then to try and seemingly make a profit on an upgrade to fix a fault that is totally of their design. Madness.

 

So glad I have a PRO arm thats design has remained unchanged in what 15 years? Still the best out there.

 

Rick.

[William Demeritt]

Anyone who has done the upgrade care to chime in? What was the cost? Was there a cost?

 

G50X and G70X arm owners, can you weigh in as well? Have the concerns been addressed?

[Brian Freesh]

I'll be testing one at Tiffen sometime soon. They no longer have any non-X versions to try out, wondering if anyone in the LA area has one that has not been upgraded that would like to directly compare the two with me? Since you're there anyway, you could leave your arm to upgrade!

 

Actually, the comparison does not have to be at Tiffen, we can bring the Demo arm elsewhere.

[James Davis]

I think any upgrades to the new arms for previous owners should be totally free. You've already spent the $17k on an arm that doesn't work properly. Do they really expect you to just write off your investment and buy a new one?

 

 

 

Agreed.

[Matteo Quagliano]

Matteo - Yes, there are bearing upgrades for both arms.

 

That's a great news. Can't wait to have some feedback from an op that tested it.

Anyone out there?

 

maqu

[Eric Fletcher S.O.C.]

You can buy upgraded bearings at ANY bearing supply house, not just Tiffen (and you can skip the tiffenr tax when you do)

 

BUT Jerry claims that there are Geometry changes and bearings won't do that

[Robert Starling SOC]

I'm personally involved in this story and have never publicly discussed it so get something to drink as this is going to be a long one...

 

If in fact there were deficiencies in the original G series arms or it's components, it really isn't an upgrade, it should be a voluntary factory product recall to correct parts that did not meet professional performance standards. Again, IF there were deficiencies in parts or manufacturing quality.

 

Next, we can talk until we're blue in the face about the potential improvements in a new / updated product from any manufacturer, but until we can see it and test it under a controlled and structured set of operations by a variety of experienced operators we cannot announce emphatically that the problem(s) are resolved.

 

I've owned THREE G50 arms and have never spoken publicly about my challenges with them out of respect for my friends Jerry and Garrett and my friends at Tiffen who have always provided extraordinary support in their products and my career. According to Garrett it was my experiences nearly three years ago that led to the work on the new Gx series arms.

 

The challenges I had with the G50 arm were very subtle, so subtle that they were barely noticeable except in very very slow "dolly type" moves with distinct horizontal components on the set and the arm telegraphing my steps. We all know Steadi isn't a dolly but we also know we're frequently asked to do dolly type moves.

 

Where the deficiency came to light is when I was filling in on a set where the network owned their own PRO arm and Tiffen sled. I wanted to use my G50 since it was lighter and I knew nothing about the PRO arm at the time. On one specific shot I simply could not work out the SUBTLE telegraphed steps despite spending hours trying every imaginable combination of footwork, posture and technique anyone would suggest. Yet, when I tried the same move with the studios's PRO arm I could pull it off every single time without any special effort at all. Greg Acosta, another operator on the show and I spent hours over the course of several days testing and going back and forth between arms. Two ops, same results.

 

At one point the show Director was passing by and asked what we were doing. When we explained and demoed the setup he emphatically announced that I was not to use my G50 on the show ever again! Ouch!!!

 

With my Tiffen arm banned from the show (remember they have their own arm and were not paying rental for mine), Tiffen and Garrett took this very seriously and immediately loaned me a G70 while they worked on mine. Unfortunately the G70 exhibited the same characteristics and even after a rebuild and personal evaluation by Garrett my G50 only slightly improved.

 

Up to that point, I had kept the entire situation between me, Tiffen and Garrett. However, as I privately shared my experience with a few other G series owners, many with 10-20 years experience they too shared with me that they were seeing the same characteristic of telegraphing steps in slow moves. We all decided that as a professional courtesy to Tiffen, Garrett and Jerry we would not go public and blow it up on the forum until further testing was done and to allow Tiffen time to sort out the problem.

 

Within a few months (early 2010) two groups of A-list experienced operators, one group in LA and the other East Coast did closed independent side-by-side tests using and comparing a wide variety of different arms all with the same results in the G series. I think this is when Tiffen sat up and really took notice as they had at first inferred that perhaps I had poor technique and it was operator error instead of equipment performance.

 

Again, as a professional courtesy and out of respect we as a group of independent testers decided not to blow it up on the forum. However, once the performance issue was recognized / admitted privately (part of any solution is admitting you have a problem), Garrett explained to me that they would work on a solution but that in a company the size of Tiffen change does not occur overnight.

 

With no quick fix in sight, that is when I decided to buy a PRO arm, which in turn precipitated a complete switch to PRO arm / vest and an XCS Ultimate. Meanwhile, Tiffen built up the best G50 they could and replaced my old arm at no charge with a new one. Few manufacturers would do that on an arm that was well out of warranty.

 

So, the challenges and changes with the G series arms began in earnest nearly 2.5 years ago. The Gx series didn't happen overnight but Tiffen listened and responded. To be clear, I'm not saying the Gx was based on my input or necessarily my experience but my circumstance and situation was certainly the catalyst that began the process.

 

I want to make it clear as well that I firmly believe that without Tiffen's support early on I would not have been able to make such quick in-roads and success as an operator. They provide a very good product that still to this day I use and support Tiffen products in my demos, workshops and private consultation work. If you're an aspiring or experienced operator, Tiffen products offer you the most bang for the buck. When asked, I always recommend Tiffen to new operators and only until you have a good bit of experience under your belt would you even notice the subtleties in the performance of any of the big-rig stabilizers out there. At that point it becomes a matter of personal preference, loyalty and brand perception/acceptance in your market.

 

So, that's my story and a bit of history as to how we got from where we were in 2009 to where we are today. Jerry, Garrett, Tiffen; if you'd like to add to this or offer your perspective please do. This post is in no way intended to disparage or critique you, the product or the brand.

 

I'd sincerely like to give the new G50x a try when one is available.

 

Robert

[Robert Starling SOC]

One more thing...

 

I'm an operator. All I've ever done my entire life since I was six years old has been to view the world through a viewfinder and lens. Before I even knew what I was doing or that there could be a career in it I had a camera of some type in my hands.

 

I know ZERO about bearings, design, engineering, manufacturing and very little about electronics other than RF.

 

All I really care about is my frame and the only problem I have with ANY gear is when it impacts my frame / composition in a negative way. Equipment should be an invisible seamless supporting role in your visual expression and should never hold you back or limit you.

 

Thank you!

 

Robert

[Jerry Holway]

You can buy upgraded bearings at ANY bearing supply house, not just Tiffen (and you can skip the tiffenr tax when you do)

 

BUT Jerry claims that there are Geometry changes and bearings won't do that

 

True, you can buy different bearings anywhere, but the bearing upgrade for these arms involves a different type of bearing with a different size.

 

A simple swap was not a workable solution as we were already using a very high grade of bearing in that size.

 

Therefore there are a number of different machine parts involved in the bearing upgrades.

 

Go with what Robert says, and try out the new arms.

 

Jerry

[JobScholtze]

To be honest, i would like to try it, but i am sure i wont "buy" that upgrade. It should be a call back and fix thing imo.

[James Davis]

Sure it's great for anyone who buys the arms now, but for us G50 owners we are left with an arm that has never worked as it was intended to, that has been significantly devalued by people being made aware of the design fault we have all noticed on a regular basis and we are then expected to pay for the new version that does work properly?

 

I'd love to try it too... and then hand over my old G50 arm and take the new working one home :D