New PRO Arm Weight Range Charts

[Eric Fletcher S.O.C.]

Damn...and I was already set on an Archer2...just waiting for the Exovest...Pro is seductive...:D

 

I believe I read somewhere that the Atlas weighs more than the Titan - is that true?

 

The original weight comparison quote used my arm that has an original cut back Titanium Socket block (12 years old and no issues) and that is a HUGE weight savings making the new arm appear heavier than the Titan arm....

 

Bottom line is that it's built the way it's built to last forever and work properly

[Jerry Holway]

 

The "Why would you buy anything else" question comes to mind

 

Here is something else to seriously consider. The Tiffen Products are a closed eco-system, you can't upgrade the sleds, they use non-standard center post dimensions, non stand arm post dimensions and non standard accessory wiring and plugs (Hirose? Really?) With a Pro-Standard system you are open to PRO, XCS, Schatler and a host of others

 

 

Good question, but there are some odd assumptions (and weird revisionist history?) going on here.

 

Every manufacturer has reasons for making the stuff they way they do. Not every customer agrees with those reasons, or all of them. I do not mean to disparage any other rig (I don’t know enough to do so), but I’d like to clarify and respond to the above statements regarding Tiffen rigs, about which I know a little bit.

 

Closed eco-system? Non-upgradeable? Let’s examine the premise in detail, keeping in mind what exactly most people need to swap out once they have a sled with a gimbal, base, and stage.

 

With the “closed” Tiffen rigs, it’s easy to change battery types and numbers and manufacturers, even after buying a rig. AB, IDX, no worries. Plenty of choices.

 

Monitors – You have a wide choice, SD, HD, both, big and small, many manufacturers, easy to upgrade.

 

Cables up the post: probably the widest range of choices anywhere. You want more cables? You want to add more lines for audio, data, or some future requirement? You are not constrained by a post-to-base or post-to-stage connector.

 

So what if the cables to the monitor or focus motors or transmitters are different than PRO’s? There are design reasons for the differences. And it’s only a cable.

 

The Hirose connectors for video and low power were around with the Model III – borrowed from Seitz, btw, – remember them? They still work fine in the applications they were designed for. I was able to keep all my power and video cables for transmitters and video assist cameras since 1987 or so. Really, talk about standards!

 

Re the “Non-standard center post dimensions.” The original centerposts were 5/8ths! The Model III introduced the 1.5” diameter “standard.” The Master Series introduced the 1.58 (40mm) “standard” back in 1995, and XCS introduced the 2 inch diameter post (I assume this… perhaps MK-V was first? not sure when it was introduced, either).

 

Who gets to declare what the standards are? And shouldn’t the design requirements (whatever each manufacturer believes them to be) set the dimensions? Would XCS’s posts have been non-standard at 50mm?

 

Do you want to upgrade to a motorized stage? With Tiffen rigs (Archer and up), an upgrade path is there, built in. It’s unavailable on any other manufacturer’s rig, so I admit it’s a closed eco-system.

 

The tilt head isn’t compatible with other rigs either –the “PRO standard” precludes its implementation. So if you want that feature, you can buy a Tiffen sled, and then there is no need to “upgrade.”

 

The same is true for Tiffen’s slim bases and the rod systems and battery hangers, and how they efficiently connect to the central post system, and how one can add accessories firmly to the bases via the structural dovetail. There would be too many design compromises to make them compatible with the “PRO standard.” Nor does any one standard work efficiently or inexpensively with smaller rigs.

 

It’s true that you can’t upgrade from an Archer2 to an Ultra2, but if you don’t need the Ultra2’s strength or weight, why should you pay for it, or even the possibility of it, with all it’s compromises, when you by the Archer2, and, at the same time, lose some of the unique and distinctive features of the Archer2?

 

On Tiffen rigs there is a wide choice of vests and arms.

 

The arms are compatible with other makes of vests and sleds. To go from Tiffen arms to other gimbals, all you need is an adapter post (and Tiffen makes them). Not much more expensive than a longer or shorter arm post, and you can easily make these yourself. Other manufacturer’s arms can work with Tiffen’s vests, and sleds, and their vests with Tiffen's arms and sleds.

 

BTW, the arm-to-vest interconnect “standard” dimensions in use since 1978 or so have been altered ever so slightly by PRO, which makes their female socket blocks often incompatible with other “standard” arms. Fortunately, the holes to hold the female socket blocks to the bridge plate are standard, so a PRO’s female socket block can be swapped out with the old standard if necessary – so hooray for some standards!

 

The lighter socket blocks for the Zephyr, Scout, and Pilots can also be swapped out to any vest. Perhaps this lighter socket block should be a standard for light rigs, as it was first on the market and is well established? But who gets to declare it as the standard? What if someone comes up with a better, non-compatible design? Will there be a hue and cry over standards, or should we just use what is better for each of us?

 

PRO gave us the Donkey Box and changed the “standard” dovetail plates. I, like many others, had to throw all my old standard IIIa plates away. It was a good thing to chuck that “standard.” At the time, there was nothing else to bolt it to, so of course the Donkey Box attached to the Model III and was “modular,” just like the Seitz side to side vernier adapter for the Model III that proceeded the Donkey Box. I threw the Seitz gadget away as well… and threw all those "standard" plates away when I got the Master Series and the no-tools camera mounting stage. Progress!

 

I don’t agree with every design detail that Tiffen produces, but to criticize their designs as “closed” is like saying Porche seats or struts or transmissions should fit in a BMW (or Chevy, whatever) and be totally swappable. (I know nothing, really, about cars, so I’m out on a long limb here, but I bet the engineers at Porche and BMW would feel pretty limited if they had to conform to the other’s engineering choices just so some folks could swap all the parts). Of course Porches and BMWs should guzzle the same gas and use some standard tires, but beyond that?

 

Jerry

[CharlesEdmond]

Hello forum,

I'm in the market for a different arm (I currently have a used efp) and never could afford a big pro arm or a G70. My efp arm looks like it's been through a lot and has some "rough" spots in it, and so I think it's about time for a change. I could get a used G50, which i see several for sale here at really good prices, but with the Atlas's new price under $12k it might be a good affordable option to get me started in the pro line. Most of my shoots are for regional tv with lighter cameras that, based on the weight chart, I think the atlas arm can handle like the Varicam, an occasional alexa, red one and red epic, and lots of live broadcast cameras. I've already tried out a G50, but now I wanted to hear from some people who actually own and have used the Atlas alot.

 

It's one thing to demo it for a few minutes, but has it been tested over time yet? I'd like to hear from actual atlas owners on how it really handles, and if I would see a big difference from the efp arm to the pro atlas arm, or any other strengths or weaknesses I should know of. So speak up...Who out there actually owns one and can give some insight? Feel free to PM me if you dont want it public..just trying to get some good inside info before I make a decision.

 

Thanks to all,

 

CE

Edited July 20, 2012 by CharlesEdmond

[Eric Fletcher S.O.C.]

Hello forum,

I'm in the market for a different arm (I currently have a used efp) and never could afford a big pro arm or a G70. My efp arm looks like it's been through a lot and has some "rough" spots in it, and so I think it's about time for a change. I could get a used G50, which i see several for sale here at really good prices, but with the Atlas's new price under $12k it might be a good affordable option to get me started in the pro line. Most of my shoots are for regional tv with lighter cameras that, based on the weight chart, I think the atlas arm can handle like the Varicam, an occasional alexa, red one and red epic, and lots of live broadcast cameras. I've already tried out a G50, but now I wanted to hear from some people who actually own and have used the Atlas alot.

 

It's one thing to demo it for a few minutes, but has it been tested over time yet? I'd like to hear from actual atlas owners on how it really handles, and if I would see a big difference from the efp arm to the pro atlas arm, or any other strengths or weaknesses I should know of. So speak up...Who out there actually owns one and can give some insight? Feel free to PM me if you dont want it public..just trying to get some good inside info before I make a decision.

 

Thanks to all,

 

CE

 

 

It flies identically to the it's Bigger brother the Titan arm.

 

Bottom line is, It just works. It's the best, smoothest, Highest isolation, lowest maintenance arm on the market. AND with it's common spring cartridges to the Atlas arm you are future-proofing your investment when and it you move to bigger rigs

[Robert Starling SOC]

I have a good bit of time on the Atlas arm flying an Alexa and an Epic.

 

Both the Atlas arm and the Titan arm only get better (smoother) over time as they break in, but still day one from the factory they are the smoothest arms out there. The Titan has long been the arm by which all other arms are compared. Both arms use the same canisters.

 

Search the Forum and try to find a single complaint about a PRO arm. All arms will require repair or maintenance occasionally but I don't think I've ever found complaint on the performance of the PRO arms.

 

Robert

[CharlesEdmond]

Thanks for the replies. Yes I am well aware of Pro's excellent reputation. Eric and Robert, did you guys actually buy an atlas arm or did you just demo it? If you did not buy one, why not?

 

CE

[Eric Fletcher S.O.C.]

Thanks for the replies. Yes I am well aware of Pro's excellent reputation. Eric and Robert, did you guys actually buy an atlas arm or did you just demo it? If you did not buy one, why not?

 

CE

 

 

Well I have a little more involvement than just demoing the arm, including being the first to fly it.

 

Yes I have one

[John Perry SOC]

Thanks for the replies. Yes I am well aware of Pro's excellent reputation. Eric and Robert, did you guys actually buy an atlas arm or did you just demo it? If you did not buy one, why not?

 

CE

 

Hi Charles,

Glad to hear you finally got your own sled, congrats. The EFP is a good starter rig for live tv....i owned one for many years. I cannot speak for the G series arm because I've never used one, but I too bought the Pro Atlas the day it was available and I've been using it on live shows every week since and I can say it's the best arm I have ever used for live tv. It's much less bulky than other arms, plus I love the extra up/down boom range. I got mine with a titanium socket block to save a couple of pounds so it's also lighter than my previous arms. If you end up getting an Atlas, you might also keep your EFP arm just in case you get a really heavy 3D camera package one day that is over the Atlas's weight range.

[Robert Starling SOC]

Thanks for the replies. Yes I am well aware of Pro's excellent reputation. Eric and Robert, did you guys actually buy an atlas arm or did you just demo it? If you did not buy one, why not?

 

CE

 

I think only Eric and John ordered before me, but I've been using the beta and demo units for quite a while. Since this will be a backup / light rig arm for me and in order to allow PRO to fulfill their pre-orders from new customers, mine will come from the next production run.

 

Robert

[Alec Jarnagin SOC]

I have Serial Number 3. It is an amazing arm and performs just like the big one. I have not felt qualified to chime in since I've barely used it though. Keep in mind, they just came out and I don't even have my Gray Springs yet (soon) and the work I've been doing since I received it has all required the capacity of the bigger arm (although, if I had the Gray springs, I may have snuck by on some things). Looking forward to using it.

[CharlesEdmond]

Thanks again everyone for the insight so I can make an informed decision. The good low prices on used G50's is making it a difficult choice. John I thought you only demo'd the Atlas, I didn't know you bought one, so that says a lot. One last question for the guys who bought it..did you also buy gray springs or did you just use the blues and blacks that you already owned. Alec i see your point about not having gray springs, but since most of what I fly are lighter weight cameras, I think 2 grays with a 45 pound capacity should cover everything for me (except 3D). Like you said John I could keep my EFP arm for those occasional heavy cameras, then everything will be covered.

 

So what springs are you guys using with the Atlas?

 

CE

[John Perry SOC]

Thanks again everyone for the insight so I can make an informed decision. The good low prices on used G50's is making it a difficult choice. John I thought you only demo'd the Atlas, I didn't know you bought one, so that says a lot. One last question for the guys who bought it..did you also buy gray springs or did you just use the blues and blacks that you already owned. Alec i see your point about not having gray springs, but since most of what I fly are lighter weight cameras, I think 2 grays with a 45 pound capacity should cover everything for me (except 3D). Like you said John I could keep my EFP arm for those occasional heavy cameras, then everything will be covered.

 

So what springs are you guys using with the Atlas?

 

CE

 

 

Hi Charles,

I got 2 grays with mine which handles most live broadcast cameras. I already had blacks in case I fly a lighter camera, but so far i've only used the 2 grays in the Atlas.

[CharlesEdmond]

I will be in LA next week Aug 28-30 and would love to demo an Atlas arm while i'm there. Will any of you atlas owner guys be around those days? I will come to where ever you are. Drinks and dinner are on me!

 

CE

[Eric Fletcher S.O.C.]

I will be in LA next week Aug 28-30 and would love to demo an Atlas arm while i'm there. Will any of you atlas owner guys be around those days? I will come to where ever you are. Drinks and dinner are on me!

 

CE

 

 

Your best bet is to call Jack at PRO and arrange a demo there

[Andrew Ansnick]

Charles,

 

Sorry I somehow missed this topic until now! I have quite a bit of flight time logged with this arm in the r&d process starting back in November of last year. I also own an Atlas arm and purchased two gray canisters to compliment my investment. In fact, the Gray spring canisters were developed specifically for the Atlas arm to increase its lift capacity- the ability to use the Gray canisters in the Titan arm is simply a bonus (or not depending on how you look at it). Though the 2 Gray spring canisters pretty much live in my Atlas chasis, I have also used the arm with 1 Blue and 1 Black to fly a super lightweight RED Epic package with great results as well as using 2 blacks for other lighter setups.

 

That being said, I would hold onto your EFP arm if you think you'll need the extra lift capacity. If you are looking at a used G50- FLY AN ATLAS ARM FIRST. The Atlas arm is simply in a league of it's own - like it's bigger brother, the Titan arm. Others have already touched on the major selling points- smoothness, isolation of movement, boom range, lower profile design, modularity, etc. Yes, I would agree that the prices that used G50's are going for are enticing, however, consider more then just the initial investment. What about resale value? Though I doubt you'll ever want to get rid of an Atlas, PRO arms hold their value better then any other arm manufacturer and are pretty much assured a quick sale.

 

Contact Jack at PRO and he should be able to arrange a demo for you but if for some reason he is unable to set this up, I wouldn't mind a free dinner.