Interesting new rig

[Shawn Sutherland]

Near the end of my first post on this thread, I clearly said:

"The Movi won't replace the Steadicam. Ever. Not gonna happen. But if combined with a Steadicam, it will allow less experienced operators to give senior operators a serious run for their money. And that's the real reason why veterans hate it."

That's the part that really pisses you off, and you know it.

Then I went on to describe the advantages of having the DOP take care of the framing.

Apparently, I'm not the only one with this opinion. AndreasKielb echoed this sentiment when he said:

"Also imagine a shot running at full speed through the woods in Don Juan. With a brushless gimbal on the rig you can fully concentrate on your path as the remote operator will take care of the framing."

Changing the subject won't matter.

Getting the "last word" won't matter.

This is coming whether you like it or not.

Deal with it.

[Eric Fletcher S.O.C.]

Near the end of my first post on this thread, I clearly said:

 

"The Movi won't replace the Steadicam. Ever. Not gonna happen. But if combined with a Steadicam, it will allow less experienced operators to give senior operators a serious run for their money. And that's the real reason why veterans hate it."

 

That's the part that really pisses you off, and you know it.

 

Then I went on to describe the advantages of having the DOP take care of the framing.

 

Apparently, I'm not the only one with this opinion. AndreasKielb echoed this sentiment when he said:

 

"Also imagine a shot running at full speed through the woods in Don Juan. With a brushless gimbal on the rig you can fully concentrate on your path as the remote operator will take care of the framing."

 

Changing the subject won't matter.

 

Getting the "last word" won't matter.

 

This is coming whether you like it or not.

 

Deal with it.

 

 

BWAHAHAHAHA No the movi on a steadicam doesn't really bother me because I know the shows that I do and the people I work with are smart and know how to use gear correctly. What I laugh about is people like you saying that "Every DP you've talked to" (again who are these DP's) want's to operate the steadicam shot and that's just not true in the real world. Even the control freak James Cameron doesn't want to operate the steadicam and realizes that steadicam operators are better at operating the shot than he is.

 

There are no advantages to having the DP operate the shot, but you don't understand that because you've never been on a set. The Don Juan situation (Do you even know what DJ is?) may have an advantage, BUT the limitations of the brushless gimbal limit it's actual use. Do you known or understand those limitations? You can't fly a proper Alexa package on a brushless gimbal because the motors can't deal with the payload. Then there is the issue of the brushless motors cogging. But you don't know about that because you've never used one, you've never used a remote head and know what makes a decent remote head.

 

So little you actually know and understand but unfortunately for you and for us, you certainly think you do.

[RonBaldwin]

What is funny here is that this guy wants to be a steadicam op and A. thinks it's only about physically moving the sled around and B. is demonstrating what a moron he is on the primary international steadicam forum. Welcome to the community pal.

[Lawrence Karman]

Finally a way strap a camera to trained monkeys and get professional looking results! Think of the money saved! And of course there will be nothing left to do but become DP's so we can operate Movi's!

 

There's only one thing to do: buy up all the Movi's ever made and bury them somewhere, or load them into cruise missiles and hurl them at the Assad government. Who's with me?

[Afton Grant]

"Also imagine a shot running at full speed through the woods in Don Juan. With a brushless gimbal on the rig you can fully concentrate on your path as the remote operator will take care of the framing."

 

Changing the subject won't matter.

 

Getting the "last word" won't matter.

 

This is coming whether you like it or not.

 

Deal with it.

 

I don't have a beef with Andreas, as I know that is his quote, however you use it as some sort of supporting, debate-killer, example. Quite honestly, I don't want to imagine such a shot. Such a shot sounds like a nightmare. I don't want to run full speed through woods while wearing a rig whether I'm looking at the shot or not. Any experienced operator would say, "Hey... let's get a quad or gator or something in here so we can really make this work." And any experienced crew would say, "No problem, because that's the right way to do it and running is dumb." I'd love to see the frame of the operator that just takes off full tilt away from the actors, never checking a frame (because the DP is operating, remember!!) to see if they're getting closer, farther away, perhaps stumbled, perhaps took a different route around a tree... I'm sure your crew will let you know you know how you screwed it up when you finish your full speed run and realize the actors stopped 50 yards behind you.

 

The part that really pisses us off is not this idea that someday someone might mount a Movi to a rig and pull off a shot. What pisses us off is when it is declared that such an action will immediately make everything we have worked for, practiced, and learned over the last few decades obsolete. And when we hesitate and say, "Well, I dunno, let's just wait and see," somehow you interpret that as whining, stubborn old operators that are blinded by the youthful envy coursing through our bodies at the sheer mention of a new piece of technology.

 

I don't know a thing about you, Shawn. I figure by the time you're an adult, you've at least learned a little bit of good old fashioned respect. Respecting elders means little more than, if you walk into a room, it's a good idea to show every person in that room respect. Because, if nothing else, they've at least been in that room longer than you.

[Eric Fletcher S.O.C.]

Afton,

 

According to Shawn's profile he's a 51 year old Truck driver from Ottawa, Which probably explains the anger in his posts

[Lars Erik]

Hi Shawn,

 

One question, you seem to know a lot about Steadicam and the Moovi and similar gimbals. Why are you then asking questions about the Moovi on the Freefly forum? Here you're clearly have no experience with the system.

 

You even state that you've got no idea how a Moovi will act when used on a Steadicam.

 

I quote : "Until somebody mounts a Movi on top of a Steadicam and takes it for a spin, we might as well be asking if the world is flat." Unqoute.

 

How can you then be so sure about how the industry will react upon launch of the Moovi?

 

In case you're in the dark about what I'm referring to, I've taken the liberty to copy the URL here:

 

http://forum.freeflysystems.com/index.php?threads/movi-on-a-steadicam.2080/

[bobgilles]

When I see an F65 on this rig, sign me up. For now the Zephyr is a lot cheaper and more versitile.

[AndreasKielb]

 

I don't have a beef with Andreas, as I know that is his quote, however you use it as some sort of supporting, debate-killer, example. Quite honestly, I don't want to imagine such a shot. Such a shot sounds like a nightmare. I don't want to run full speed through woods while wearing a rig whether I'm looking at the shot or not. Any experienced operator would say, "Hey... let's get a quad or gator or something in here so we can really make this work." And any experienced crew would say, "No problem, because that's the right way to do it and running is dumb." I'd love to see the frame of the operator that just takes off full tilt away from the actors, never checking a frame (because the DP is operating, remember!!) to see if they're getting closer, farther away, perhaps stumbled, perhaps took a different route around a tree... I'm sure your crew will let you know you know how you screwed it up when you finish your full speed run and realize the actors stopped 50 yards behind you.

 

 

Actually I had to do a shot of that kind once with the steadicam and the alexa. There was a dirt track nearby and I suggested to move there as the ground wasn't in the frame. Frame size was a semi close up. At first they insisted on doing the shot directly in the brush-wood with a lot of obstacles and roots. Needless to say I could only run very carefully in a kind of superslowmotion. Headroom went all over the place, regardless, as I was only able to check the monitor every few seconds and for a very short moment. I did wear my kneepads and briefed the grip running with me that I will dump down on my knees in case I stumble. I told him that he'll have no chance to stop the stumbeling itself but that he needs to hold my upper body straight when I'm on my knees to avoid that the rig crashes to the ground. I did that briefing with the grip while we were standing near to the director so that he eventually will realize how dangerous the situation was, but without success.

 

I had to do the shot in the brush-wood like 8 or 9 takes in slow motion. Of course I was carefull but it was very dangerous, regardless. After they were kind of satisfied with the result (... don't really know how as the story was that the character runs to save the life of his new love) I suggested to finally move to the dirt track and try if I can run faster there (...of course I could). We did two more takes and they were way better and with a speed corresponding to the story. In the end they were really satisfied with the result saying "Andreas... that's exactly what we need". Well, yes... at least I was happy to surrived that day without an accident or getting fired.

[Lars Erik]

 

 

I don't have a beef with Andreas, as I know that is his quote, however you use it as some sort of supporting, debate-killer, example. Quite honestly, I don't want to imagine such a shot. Such a shot sounds like a nightmare. I don't want to run full speed through woods while wearing a rig whether I'm looking at the shot or not. Any experienced operator would say, "Hey... let's get a quad or gator or something in here so we can really make this work." And any experienced crew would say, "No problem, because that's the right way to do it and running is dumb." I'd love to see the frame of the operator that just takes off full tilt away from the actors, never checking a frame (because the DP is operating, remember!!) to see if they're getting closer, farther away, perhaps stumbled, perhaps took a different route around a tree... I'm sure your crew will let you know you know how you screwed it up when you finish your full speed run and realize the actors stopped 50 yards behind you.

 

 

Actually I had to do a shot of that kind once with the steadicam and the alexa. There was a dirt track nearby and I suggested to move there as the ground wasn't in the frame. Frame size was a semi close up. At first they insisted on doing the shot directly in the brush-wood with a lot of obstacles and roots. Needless to say I could only run very carefully in a kind of superslomotion. Headroom went all over the place, regardless, as I was only able to check the monitor every few seconds and for a very short moment. I did wear my kneepads and briefed the grip running with me that I will dump down on my knees in case I stumble. I told him that he'll have no chance to stop the stumbeling itself but that he needs to hold my upper body straight when I'm on my knees to avoid that the rig crashes to the ground. I did that briefing with the grip while we were standing near to the director so that he eventually will realize how dangerous the situation was, but without success.

 

I had to do the shot in the brush-wood like 8 or 9 takes in slow motion. Of course I was carefull but it was very dangerous, regardless. After they were kind of satisfied with the result (... don't really know how as the story was that the character runs to save the life of his new love) I suggested to finally move to the dirt track and try if I can run faster there (...of course I could). We did two more takes and the were way better and with a speed corresponding to the story. In the end they were really satisfied with the result saying "Andreas... that's exactly what we need". Well, yes... at least I was happy to surrived that day without an accident or getting fired.

 

 

Ha-ha! Been there and done that. One of the very first features I did was this situation exactly. It was a low-budget horror movie. We did rehearsals, but it was a dense forest in Norway. Rocks, slippery roots and mud all around. We always tried to pick the least dangerous path for me.

 

Would I do it again? NO! Way too little control, both when it comes to safety and quality of the movement.

 

Afton, you can see some of the footage here. It's from 05:35 to 06:15. Remember that I was a newbie within Steadicam then. But I was running uphill, downhill and don juan. Crazy when I think about it.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmgbumU3uzQ

 

Have no idea why the movie is on YT though. Will have to contact the director about this.

[Alan Rencher]

I do like that the members of the Freefly forum are giving him all the reasons why a Movi on a Steadicam isn't a good idea, but he still comes here trying to tell seasoned ops that it's the best idea ever.

[Eric Fletcher S.O.C.]

Looks like Shawn is well on his way to making friends at the Freefly forum.....

 

I'd be surprised if we see him back here especially since he feels that his job here is done with him discovering Movi on a steadicam...

[Shawn Sutherland]

You guys sure know how to pile on the messenger, don't ya'? I think I know what the problem is.

When I said the Movi/Steadicam combination will allow less experienced operators to give senior operators a run for their money, you thought I was talking about you. That's not even close to what I meant - at all. Trust me I want nothing to do with that, and neither does anybody I know. The shows you do and the people you work with are of little interest to me. I don't care how you use your gear "correctly", and I'm not from the big production world you're in. DOP's I know would love to operate the Movi aboard a Steadicam. We get our hands dirty, make mistakes, and invent new things because we don't know it can't be done. We're indie filmmakers and that's how we roll.

You think there are no advantages of having the DOP operate the shot and suggest I don't know this because I haven't been "on a set". I have, just not one of yours. You think it's the end of the world if I can't fly a proper Alexa package on a brushless gimbal because the motors can't deal with the payload. Guess what? I don't need an Alexa package. I'm fine with what I have and I seriously doubt Freefly Systems sells bad motors.

I never suggested Andreas quote was some kind of supporting debate-killer example. I only posted it because he's smart enough to see the potential in a Steadicam/Movi combination, and his footage is about to prove that. And where did you get the idea that a Steadicam/Movi operator would be dumb enough to just take off full tilt away from the actors, never checking a frame? I clearly said the monitor could be mounted it to the Steadicam arm with one of these:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=ikan+MA210&N=0&InitialSearch=yes&sts=ma&Top+Nav-Search=

Re-locating the monitor on the Steadicam arm puts it directly where you need to look. This is particularly useful with Don Juan shots. Obviously this arrangement enables you to track the actors behind you. If you read what I wrote, you would've seen that.

I never said a Steadicam/Movi combination would immediately make everything you worked for, practiced, and learned over the last few decades obsolete. Read carefully: "The Movi won't replace the Steadicam. Ever. Not gonna happen. But if combined with a Steadicam, it will allow less experienced operators to give senior operators a serious run for their money". No one is going to make you obsolete, and nobody's gonna take your job. But the Movi on a Steadicam will change it. Bank on that.

I don't own a Movi and I never said I did. I was just hoping to find someone willing to try it on a Steadicam and shoot some footage. If you want to know how the industry will react to the Movi/Steadicam combo, stick around 'cause you're about to find out.

Since you don't want to listen to anything I have to say, here are some quotes from other people on this forum. I didn't write these so you might want to perk up and pay attention:

"Here is the new reality, at least where I sit in the episodic world. Producers want more for less and they want it faster and easier. The 5/7d world is rapidly becoming a stable part of our everyday work load not to mention GoPros. I don't necessarily like the evolution of the camera world, but I don't write the rules. Not many of us do. I think there is still life left in the world of conventional image making, using large cameras to make a narrative, but I know that the smaller cameras and all of the devices being created to make them do things that the Alexas and Panavisions Golds used to do are the future. Get used to it and start to make it work for you so that you can continue to keep working."

"I just had a thought: If you made a bracket to mount this to the top sled, could you effectively make an AR style rig?" (sound familiar Alan?)

"This is a rig that will effect the Steadicam market. It won't replace it but it will certainly make waves, especially in the commercial production company sector. A company I work with a lot that does mid level commercials with light weight epics could easily afford the m-10"

"The main trick is getting time to work and practice with it. Just like with the Steadicam but instead of years it will take days to get decent and months to get phenomenal. This video reminds me of garret browns early tests with the Steadicam. Not perfect but still quite incredible. I see this making big changes in the way we move the camera. It does have its limitations but so does any system. The main thing I see with it is you could theoretically mount it anyway you want and have a stabilized hot head for car mounts, cranes, cable cams and other sorts of rigs. You don't just have to hold it in your hand. All for $15k."

"another invention looking for a shot" - In 1976, a grip and and camera assistant sitting on a 500 lb dolly probably said something similar. And just like the Steadicam, now there are new ways of telling a story, and isn't that what cinematography is all about? I just got back from NAB and the rig demos were blowing people away. They knocked this one out of the park"

The writing's on the wall and it's not mine. Do the math.

As a side note, there is one elder on this forum I do respect. Charles Papert. The friggin guy's 103 years old! Doesn't look a day over 45 either. Gotta respect that.

Oh and for the love of God Eric please: Run upstairs and wash that "Taste of Dexter" out of your mouth!

[James Davis]

I did a lot of running through the forest a few weeks ago on this, lots of long lens work too, some of it running very fast, Don Juan, tango and missionary.

Safety wise I was very careful about checking the path ahead, seemed to go ok, no MOVI required....

 

[Barry Mkokiner]

 

 

Oh and for the love of God Eric please: Run upstairs and wash that "Taste of Dexter" out of your mouth!

 

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

 

Oh, man that's funny