bullying on the forum

[JobScholtze]

Told you tommy, lots of agenda's. One works for and with a brand, other one loves and lives a brand an boom, there you have it.

[Benjamin Treplin]

Job it's not about passion or love, unfortunately it's about animosity. Lots of agendas, yes, and even more lots of egos. I don't care who it is. I don't care who is affiliated with whom. If folks have a problem and come here, then they have to fucking tell their whole story. Just ranting, bashing and bullying is not enough. If topics are too delicate to discuss here, then leave it outside, completely!

Don't get me wrong, that doesn't mean this is the wrong place to speak up against a vendor, make other aware of an issue.

It's the wrong place for agendas and egos. Leave that to politicians they get payed for it.

 

This behavior stimulates the worst in all of us. I have given in on this too. I don't like it.

'IMHO' was commonly used here. It reflects an attitude. A mind set of how people want be treated and in my humble opinion should be treated.

[chris fawcett]

 

 

 

Yea, fuck the bullies and the trolls. They diminish this forum wih their bile...

Chris

Chris,

Bully the bullies? How would that attitude possibly elevate things. Sounds like an eye for an eye. Reminds me of the two blind men anecdote. I do love the idea of a dislike button though.

Calling them out is my suggestion, Tommy.

 

Next time I see a newbie bullied, that's what I'm going to do, call it as I see it.

 

All the best,

 

Chris

[Dean Smollar]

"In the moment when I truly understand my enemy, understand him well enough to defeat him, then in that very moment I also love him. I think it's impossible to really understand somebody, what they want, what they believe, and not love them the way they love themselves." -Ender Wiggin, Ender's Game.

[Janice Arthur]

Hi all;

 

Here is my threshold for knowing when bullying occurs.

 

1) I feel empathy for the person who was slammed.

2) I feel a tightness in my gut and hate it.

3) I would like the person slammed to stand up for themselves but if they can't or are overwhelmed for others, including me, to help them by speaking up.

4) I want to feel good when I post something, not worried that I will be ridiculed.

 

Too long this bullying has made the forum a miserable place; it used to be consistently fun and a place of comradery. If you don't want to help, then don't post, pass on that topic.

 

Janice

 

Janice

[chris fawcett]

I'm with Janice.

 

Chris

[William Demeritt]

Perhaps this gives moderators an opportunity to create a basic declaration of decorum while posting on the forum? We have moderators established by the site admin, and while they're busy with their own lives and careers (in that order, I imagine), they're the ones best equipped to determine how to address this issue?

 

Each post has a "report" button. I imagine there's a review mechanism/process for those reported posts. Why not suspend/ban offending members based on reports, private warnings, etc. Other sites have worked well with restricted permissions during probationary periods, etc.

 

Again, I would also reintroduce a previous suggestion of having a mandatory waiting period before posting, unless otherwise authorized by mods/admins. I think a 2 week or 1 month waiting period to post for most members will encourage them to use the search button, private messaging or other tools to get answers. Probationary period for all other subforums, immediate access to the SteadiNewbies sub.

[Alan Rencher]

Let's just make Will a Mod already.

[Alec Jarnagin SOC]

Hi all. I've intentionally been quiet for a couple of days to see what the community wanted to express. In the old days, we Moderators had a much simpler job - move posts and delete spam. Now, as the community and forum have grown, so has the need for more policing. As a group, there has been much discussion behind the scenes between us moderators on just what point we get involved as we all firmly believe in free speech. On that note, I invite YOU, the members of this fine community, to take on the policing. There are a number of ways to do this: you can call someone out publicly if you feel that works or you may hit the button "report this post" as Will points out. While I don't see us implementing something so hard lined as "three strikes and you're out," multiple reports by multiple members of this community against repeat offenders will be noticed. What to do from there? Depends, I suppose. Warnings can be issued and someone could even be banned as a last resort.

 

I'd like to thank the ever articulate Brooks for starting this thread and I'd like to thank those who have posted thus far. I'd personally love to see a bit more civility around here but not at the cost of water downed "feel good" discussion. We are a passionate lot who care deeply about what we do. Let's not loose that! Let's just find better means of communication, please.

[Thomas English]

Its a good point. You have "Report this post"

 

It would be a shame to let the minority few continue to ruin this forum. I am going to report posts I feel are too obnoxious from now on. It is basically playground bullying.

[Robert Starling SOC]

... I'd personally love to see a bit more civility around here but not at the cost of water downed "feel good" discussion...

 

My point exactly. If there's going to be "Bully Button" there needs to be a "BS Button", "No Clue Button", "Read The Archives Button", "Take A Workshop Button" and "Nonsense Button". Maybe even a "Posting Under The Influence Button". B)

 

The challenge with multiple reports from multiple members is that I've seen members and manufacturer's associates/allies gang up in an attack on members who were not favorable to their products and/or opinions. You get 12-15 people who are not pleased with the opinions or personalities of someone and then it's a "majority"? Hardly.

 

Once anyone tinkers with drawing a line on freedom of speech to satiate or protect a few then the line has been broken and where does it end?

 

There is a HUGE difference in freedom of speech to express one's opinion on technique, product or whatever versus insulting someone. Disagreeing even strongly with someone is not the same as an insult even though it may feel like it to that person.

 

As an example, me telling Alec that his choice in peanut butter is full of trans fats, will make him fat and has bugs ground into it is my opinion and freedom of speech. Telling him he only eats that brand because he's a washed up sous chef or doesn't have 15 years caviar eating experience and the brand is full of trans fats and bugs is an insult and personal attack and opinion. That is poor form and unprofessional.

 

The forum is not broken anymore than our society is and we can all see how additional rules, laws, policing and legislation has made that go away.

 

If you don't like how (not what) someone posts on the forum, suck it up, get a pair and call them out either publicly or privately. Fight your own fight and don't go running to the Mods or hide behind a feel good button to report someone. The Mods have their own work and world to maintain and I doubt they care to be in the position of policing and enforcing good and bad behavior. If the fight gets out of hand the Mods can shut it down. If enough individuals rally against an insulting post and member they'll eventually tire and go away or change their ways.

 

And while we're all whining about this nonsense and sipping our Starbucks, take a moment this weekend to thank a Veteran who fought and served for the rights to express our opinions freely. I'm sure there are a few soldiers from a lot of countries standing on post right now who are more worried about bullets and their next warm meal more than getting butt-hurt on an Internet forum.

 

Peace and love!

 

Robert

[Mark Schlicher]

I know the difference between passionate opinions and personal insults and attacks, thankyouverymuch. Remember "Goth Op", or the time Garrett made an uncharacteristically blunt call-out to a particular repeat offender? Those threads became so toxic that they were eventually scrubbed from the forum. I actually wish that the thread with Garrett's post had remained. He spoke great wisdom.

 

I don't see anyone on this thread advocating for watered down feel-good discussion.

 

I don't see anyone advocating against passionate opinions.

 

It amazes me that a call for forum civility would be at all controversial. How is thoughtless (or intentional) abrasiveness, sarcasm and name-calling a virtue?

 

I'm encouraged that a growing number of forum members are willing to speak up.

 

I continue to be puzzled by the moderator silence over the simple, commonsense idea of a sticky in the Newbie section, which would orient newbies to the culture and expectations of the forum, and therefore minimize the "need" for the trolling behavior by some "professionals" in that subforum. It would undoubtedly reduce the number of newbie posts that some on the forum profess to "hate", but always find time to comment on.

[Lars Erik]

Well put Mark. My thoughts exactly.

 

When I did my first Steadicam workshop, Jerry Holway said that we had to share and help each other out. I always remembered these words, and agree with him. Just recently I had a veteran Norwegian filmmaker call me, because he had never done any Steadicam, but bought a ActionCam rig, and he was always off level. He asked for my help.

 

Was I disrespectful against him? No. I was polite and tried to help him out as best as I could. Sure, I politely recommended him to take a workshop when he could, but there was a sense of respect in those words.

[Thomas English]

Your right Robert but... some people are just being wankers month in month out and year in and year out. I can't be bothered to comment on it everytime as I have done many times. It is tiring, its boring and makes this forum a shit place to get information. This is why most friendly technical chatter now happens on facebook and the forum is slowly dying. FB has no search function, it has no archiving possibilities and so as a professional body wanting to advance our art we should not support it as a knowledge residence.

 

Thing is there are many people that don't want to support our common art. They want to do well and stuff everyone else.

 

Let's face it. Year on year this forum is less good, it is more petty, it is more full on one up-manship. I am caring less and less about it. One day it'll die. It's a shame but it'll be left with a load of old trolls who where once great operators slagging off a load of teenagers.

 

Democracy and freedom of speech need rules to flourish or bullies will always take it over and abuse.

[Jason Ellson]

Brooks,

 

You're a class act, I concur wholeheartedly. STOP THE BULLYING!! it is plain and simply unacceptable behavior on all levels of humanity. In the words of Thumper 'If you can't say something nice, don't say nothin' at all'.

Great post.

Jason