The ALIEN / Alien Revolution - All about...

[WillArnot]

This is exactly what I warned about.

Utterly pathetic.

 

Sorry to everyone who has to read this drivel. I'm glad Howard is getting some therapy from all this.

 

I am long windedly explaining why I have to sell my AR. I want more than ever now to distance myself from this company, and I'm sure that would suit MK-V just fine as well. And to make the sale in order that I pay something back to Lynn, who has been offered nothing but a drop in the bucket to what he is truly owed.

 

So come on you lot. You see how cheerful Howard is now, someone make me an offer on my AR. How about all you happy MK-V custommers who have been waiting for a bargain on the AR? See here for the Ad. http://www.steadicamforum.com/forums/index...?showtopic=5250

 

Will

[Lars Erik]

Dude, this Howard guy is in serious need for some professional help. Foul language man...BOOOOO!!!!!!!

 

Oh yeah, I think I'll run and buy a MK-V rig now! Not bloody likely. This thread is getting out of hand.

 

 

LE

[JobScholtze]

Lars, i dont think that we could speak on this. This is between Howard, who apperantly is fed up, and eric and will. Yes, its getting out of hand, But i think needed to get it out of there system. We have no part, dont know any facts, so dont jump into any conclusions.

 

It would be great if the would do it by email for the rest of the conversation.

 

BTW, I do enjoying the MK-V gear i use every day. And i would buy it AGAIN. I love there stuff, and i DONT have ANY costumer problems what so ever in the past. Howard has been fantastic for me.

[Martin Stacey]

I've been an owner operator for 4 1/2 years now, (a newbie by many standards here) but it has took me 4 years to register on this forum. I always thought that the existence of a forum like this would be a fantastic resource for both new and experienced operators alike to share information and ideas on anything to do with this industry. Now I'm sure that when this forum was set up that was exactly the intention however this is obviously no longer the case. The constant mud slinging and ego trips excerted on the unknowing by those with an axe to grind put me off this place for years and continues to do so today. Hence the reason it took me so long to register and the only reason I did so was to get access to the classifieds when I needed some gear. I personally never bother reading the threads on this forum, (there are other more fruitfull and less biased ways of obtaining the information I need) but have done so after visiting MK-V and seeing the anguish that this thread is causing Howard whom I only met for the first time 2 weeks ago.

Now, I have dealt with many companies within this industry and have had various levels of "customer support" ranging from abysmal to absolutely fantastic and I will put MK-V right up there with the best of them. And before any of you jump to any misguided conclusions, I don't own a MK-V rig and never have and have no axe to grind as to one rig over another. I use the rig that does the job I need it to do, plain and simple. I just get frustrated when I see a lot of rubbish spilled out in what should be a great resource for all operators alike but instead has become nothing more than a slangfest.

I, for one, will no longer be reading this forum unless I honestly believe that has something worth my time which at this point isn't much and as Howard said, I'm not the only one!

 

Martin Stacey

[RobVanGelder]

this one is in favor of Howard 's story:

 

"Or how about NAB three years ago where Howard was showing everyone the "shot" he did on one of the Harry Potter movies? Yet, when you looked at the IVS overlay, it said "Standby" and the footage counter stayed at Zero?"

 

This can happen with Arri camera's when they use the wrong on-off switch: when you connect a real (permanent contact) on-off switch to a modern Arri camera, and not an momentary switch (pulse switch) it CAN happen that the camera runs without indication in the IVS info.

 

I have heard this complaint from assistants and seen it myself, also repeatable, many times when using the Cam-remote with it's front mounted switch between the handles.

 

facts and figures................ technical knowledge is not for everyone....................

[Howard J Smith]

Dear Lars / chaps

 

" Foul language man...BOOOOO!!!!!!!

 

"This thread is getting out of hand."

 

I totally agree!!

I am so sorry I had to resort to this - but this thread was/is totally out of hand and so fully of untruths that something had to be done. Strong words are all that some people understand sometimes.

 

I did not write my post lightly. I spent a long time and ran it by lots of people first.

I spoke with lots of my peers who called and emailed me, inc. people who run this forum.

 

They All said I had to put a stop to this horrendous, slanderous, untrue thread.

 

Lars if this was all aimed at you I am sure you would feel and act the same.

I am sorry if this offended you.

I pride myself on my customer support and work all hours to maintain this.

All I want to do is offer a professional product to professional people.

 

Just so you know.

All the best to you.

Howard

[RobVanGelder]

Martin, of course you can be put off by this thread, but this is only one little piece on the whole forum.

To say that this forum is rubbish is not true at all, many people are still getting a lot of information out of it, many operators, myself included are still willing to put their experience in this forum and respond to questions.

 

Some conflicts are clear, some ego's clash, that is not always nice but also something that happens in the real world as well, nothing is devine and holy here.

 

I bet the truth in many issues is somewhere in the middle, but different people have different perceptions.

 

Still, it is an issue that has to be solved, as this new technique has to be developed further, and it will, by whoever has the longest breath or deepest pockets or most endurance.

Or a combination of all.

There is a market for it, operators are interested as well as DP's and directors.

 

Now most of us are outside this discussion, though very interested as many key players in this Steadicam community are important, as a source of information and / or a supplier of gear.

We outsiders should refrain from interference, it clogs up the overall view and discussion and serves nothing.

 

The main people in this conflict have to come to terms outside this forum in my opinion.

 

I ask all involved in this heated debate to take a deep breath and stop the shouting and , if needed or if strong enough in their mind to start talking WITH each other

[Martin Stacey]

Hi Rob,

That is very well put and I couldn't agree with you more. I'm not in any way calling this forum rubbish, in fact quite the opposite. I praise the entire concept. My point is merely that it, in my honest opinion, has lost it's way and has a growing reputation for being a difficult place to get a straight answer at times without someone wanting to "enforce their will or opinion" by jumping on the little guy. Call it ego rubbing or mudslinging, whatever, but it is a reputation that a place like this could do without if it wants to grow and encourage this skill within the industry and at this point in time it doesn't seem to be being dealt with.

I agree that the sort of dirty laundry being aired in this thread is unnecessary amd should be dealt with outside of this forum behind closed doors. But it is not the first instance of this sort of "attack" of one or more persons on another within this forum and as far as I can see it won't be the last but as long as people insist on allowing it to happen without stopping it or pointing out to people that this is not the place it will only continue to happen. I have met Howard and found him to be a very friendly and helpful person to deal with and I'm sure if I met Lynn I would come away with the same impression. Whatever professional contracts etc. that they have between each other are exactly that, between them, and have nothing to do with me or anyone else and certainly do not need to be argued about in a public arena like this.

I originally read this thread to get some information on the AR, NOT to read about the personal grievances between anyone who may have been involved in either version in it's early development. I simply wanted to know if the system worked and what issues people may have had in operating it and any tips on how these were resolved.

We have a great resource here and it is just a shame to see it getting tarred with a brush because of a few people with an axe to grind wanting to do so in public. (If you have an issue with someone, tell them so but leave the rest of us out of it. There are plenty of ways to deal with this in private)

Cheers,

Martin

[markdeblok]

I do not mind reading all the things people have to say about the AR or any other product related to steadicam, this is why I joined, remember the products from Pro Gear and UnitCine, Benz but also all the nice words on Scorpio, Preston, Bartech, Transvideo, Tiffen, etc.

No way we are better of if they have their conversation outside this forum.

The way Howard responded and the way Will started this gives me/us a good idea on what's going on, better then have someone else telling me about it.

 

 

thanks for reading

 

Mark de Blok

[Matt Burton]

Why Lynn is not posting hear ?

[WillArnot]

Firstly, apologies for the length here. I have tried to be as concise as possible. It is a big topic.

 

How does anyone decide what is true or not? It appears this is becoming an increasingly important question.

 

To help answer that question, let me ask a couple of questions. How does one deal with a fundamentalist suicide bomber who doesn't care about his own life? They believe what they believe, even if it is wrong, but will stop at nothing to achieve an end game. How does one deal with someone who doesn't care about truth, and will say whatever they have to in an attempt to get what they want?

 

I have gone to great lengths to refrain from boring and insulting our community’s sensibilities with emotional tirades. I cannot take responsibility for what others say in this thread. However that does not mean this thread does not have relevance.

 

I wish to remind you all of exactly why I need to sell my AR. This is important business, no small event, and has every right to be brought to light on this forum. I reiterate: at the heart of this is the Patent. The nature of our livelihoods and careers is founded on the groundbreaking Patent filed by Garrett Brown for the Steadicam. The Alien patent is a US patent only, which has been licensed to MK-V to build and sell in the US. The Licensing Agreement states that a royalty shall be paid to the inventor, Lynn Nicholson, on every unit sold worldwide. So far not one penny of the agreed to royalties has been paid to the Patent Holder. May I suggest that each new AR owner request that MK-V make the royalty payments it is legally obliged to do with each sale of a new AR unit.

 

Job, you make false conclusions: "We have no part, dont know any facts". We are all part of this if you deal w/ MK-V. We are all part of this if one cares about the truth. As for not knowing any facts, well that is your choice, but I would ask you: Do you want to know the real facts? As I said before, don’t take my word for it or MK-V’s. If you do your own research, you will find the truth is unavoidable unless you choose to deny it.

 

Has anyone read the Alien patent that I posted the link to? Note the dates for when the Patent was filed and just how long ago the Alien was in full working order? Since 1997.

 

If you research Patent Law you will further understand how the MK-V AR is no different from Panavision’s Panaglide. Just because Panavision claimed it was different because the arm was constructed differently and the bottom of the sled LOOKED different, THE CONCEPT IS EXACTLY THE SAME.

 

It follows that despite making good money with it, I cannot in good conscience continue to operate the AR out of respect for the Patent and licensing Agreement that has been broken and abused from the get go. This is why I am trying to sell my AR. I have tried to simply explain how and why I have come to that conclusion, which has not been easy.

So I would appreciate that people understand to keep me out of what history exists between Howard and Eric, as I want nothing to do with their tirade, since their relationship is not for me to comment on, and took place before my time w/ MK-V.

 

Rob says: "I ask all involved in this heated debate to take a deep breath and stop the shouting and , if needed or if strong enough in their mind to start talking WITH each other".

Thank you Rob, for helping to bring rational discussion back to this thread. This has been my intention from the start since the Talking is absolutely the important thing here as it is certainly “strong enough in my mind”, and that is what I aim to continue doing. Martin your comments are valid, so I have to assume you are referring to Howard and Eric’s tirade, since to assume beyond that would be doing a huge disservice to the importance and validity of this forum. I don’t doubt this thread causes MK-V aggravation, but they have broken their Licensing Agreement with the inventor of the Alien concept, of which the Revolution is synonymous under Patent Law.

 

Again, none of you should take my word for this, but should research the case of Howard Smith being awarded the BSC Technical Achievement Award. Herein lies the truth of Howard’s intentions to deny Lynn Nicholson any recognition of his (Lynn's) Patented invention. A detestable notion. The irony in the true story is that Howard requested that he be included if there were any awards given for the design (to Lynn). Lynn, being an upstanding gentleman agreed to involve Howard if this happened. Sad that Howard did not see fit to do the same. Remember how much Lynn showed him in those 2003 pictures, and how little Howard knew at the time about making such a machine work. i.e. A gravity driven monitor?

 

During the process of informing the BSC of Howard’s negligence in making the BSC aware that Lynn is the Patent Holder and MK-V the licensee, heavy hitters in the ASC and extended camera community were informed via BCC email exactly what was going on. Short of these members coming forward to confirm these facts, as they do not visit this forum, I suggest the community investigate this for themselves to understand the truth regarding how the BSC award was procured from the beginning.

 

In further response to Martin’s dissatisfaction at this public airing of facts… It is not for a lack of immense effort at trying to gain the support and help of MK-V in private. Do you really think this all just happened yesterday? That I hadn’t tried my damndest to keep this private? Do you think I would have given Howard £32,000 before the AR was produced if I didn’t think he was “a very friendly and helpful person to deal with” as you have found him to be? No one here has ever heard from you before, but if you have been reading this forum for as long as you say, you know that I take this business extremely seriously and have an undying passion for the art of Steadicam, and great regard for my peers.

 

I want to thank those who have contributed to this thread and want to encourage that participation since we all stand to learn from more voices getting involved. I have been inspired to write further on this topic by my peers who are very interested in this thread. I would say that in any open discussion we are all free to take what makes sense to us and able to leave the rest… for others to consider. Avoid this thread if it is too much.

 

I want to also thank the increasingly long list of people around the world, who have written privately with great encouragement and have expressed gratitude that finally some light and truth is being shed on this matter of the AR. I recognise the need to remain out of the public eye with this encouragement, yet at this point I am forced to show my cards as I have been let down on such a grand scale by MK-V. It is a tragic occurance since my only intention from the beginning has been to further the potential of the Alien Revolution project and to help the version made by MK-V be more reliable, robust, and accurate.

 

MK-V I’m sure will spin this to discredit me with stories of it working in harsh environments like currently being in snowy Canada w/ Chris, or rain in New Zealand. My point is that in my experience it can be better. I have had a distinct lack of quality control in regard to machining and tolerances. I have had to solve these issues myself since MK-V have been unwilling to address them in a timely or effective manner. In one case the result was even worse, yet I was told that it was not a problem. And these are hardware issues before even addressing the interface of the software controls with said hardware, which is a whole other set of facts.

 

MK-V of course will contend this fact and claim to be the victim in this matter yet again, but the truth is that I have been totally unsupported by the company for the majority of the time when I have needed their help. Again this fact will be contended by claims of personal visits and dedication, but the result of these occasions was zero except for further frustration on my part and continued lack of follow through on the part of MK-V. As things have slowly come to a head, and I have researched matters with greater detail, I have discovered many other facts that have contributed to my decision to distance myself from MK-V.

 

In conclusion, I yearn for a machine that works as well as Lynn's Alien that I've had the pleasure of flying. The remote control is phenomenal and the return to auto level mode during the shot is totally graceful. Lynn however will be the first to tell you that it is a 75% POC (proof of concept), and still needs work. His honesty is inescapable. He told Howard this and Howard has not heeded the advice. As I've said before, this an expensive project and here it sits at the 80 / 20 mark. 80% complete (far less if you look at the AR) having spent 20% of the budget. What it takes to make it just as light as a normal rig and retain consistent accuracy and performance, that last 20% of the refining process (yet a majority of the budget), is something Howard's design will sadly never achieve on the road it is on. Despite this fact it works well for what it is. I dream about Lynn's true design being realised by a manufacturer who really understands how to make the project work and won't fail it's customers.

[WillArnot]

And just in case anyone is wondering, I am not writing for Lynn. I fact check things with him sometimes for timelines and accuracy, but these words and ideas are purely my own.

 

As I said, I am not a Lynn Nicholson PR advocate, and I am not an MK-V saboteur. This is purely based in my own experience and research.

 

Will

[Robert Starling SOC]

Why Lynn is not posting hear ?

 

Why should Mr. Nicholson waste time posting here?

 

I've just spent the last few days personally researching and reading EVERY post this fellow Howard has made on the Forum and he's clearly more than capable of single-handedly ruining his own reputation, alienating his clients / peers (no pun intended) and running his company into the ground. Go read for yourself, this thread is simply the fruit of the seeds he's been sowing for a long time.

 

Like most of us here, I don't know boo about the AR or much about the parties involved but I sure thank my lucky stars MK-V and Mr. Smith never got a nickle of my hard earned dollars for any of their products. And if they had, I'd be unloading that gear like there was no tomorrow before they go belly up.

[BRIANBUSBY]

"had a distinct lack of quality control in regard to machining and tolerances"

 

this is an insult to the machinists who strided very hard to make what was designed

i'm sorry to have to post this but as one of these people i feel insulted beyond belief that once again blame the worker not the designer who may i add at this point did his best to redress the problems when they arose.

brian

[WillArnot]

Hi Brian,

 

How do you do. Finally - a name! How frustrating to us all that this has to happen so publicly. What a shame. It would seem so easy to have sorted this out and come up with a solution that solved the problem and not have to bring these details to a public forum. As it goes, the only person I have ever been able/allowed to talk to is Rebecca @ MK-V. I'm assuming you are a machinist for MK-V.

 

I understand that she is no longer with the company. She was good on the phone and at quoting prices but unfortunately had very little technical knowledge. I am just so mystified why I was never put in touch with someone like yourself in order to sort out the machining issues, it could have been so easy.

 

The first run of the plate we are referring to didn't even fit into the AR cage it was designed to work with. How come no one checked this before they were all anodised and sent out the door on to working sets?? They were however a lot stiffer than the next attempt. The later generations of the 2nd run fit, but were hogged out and machined down so much that they were as stiff as a piece of cardboard. This was a big problem for lens vibrations and contributed to unacceptable footage.

 

Consider this. Such a simple error meant that a production company spent a lot of money in post production correcting said vibrations. They even reamed the camera house first for possibly renting them a camera that may have had registration problems, since that is what those hi frequence vibrations can look like sometimes. It didn't occur to them that it may have come from the very expensive contraption they rented called the AR.

 

I have made no mention in my post about you the machinists / worker bees - since I understand the process by which you are only doing what you are told. This is why I have always addressed such things with the designer, Howard Smith - and consistently warned him how detrimental such an oversight can be.

 

Like I have explained to Howard, nothing in our cinema/Steadicam world is just "good enough", as he likes to tell me. The fruits of our labour are seen on 40 ft screens for the world to see.

 

Unfortunately Howard's response to this problem was to deny, deny, deny. When he finally came to set and I was able to show him first hand, there was a lot of head scratching going on. However, I had been told for over 2 months at that point that there was no problem whatsoever. He finally had to admit that the plate had been made way too thin in an attempt to shed weight.

 

Well, those 2oz that were saved, unfortunately opened up a whole world of other problems. Howard tried to shirk responsibility actually and told me that he had just given it over to you guys telling you to make it lighter (and this time make it fit). So it wasn't actually his fault.

 

So again, I ask the question, who does one talk to at MK-V to get something done right??