Cinetronic/Cinelive Tally

[chris bangma]

Chris, ok, so you havn't given a solution .. apparently this is working for other cinelive/cinetronics users.. but not for me ..

I tried attaching the sensor to the front light on a PDW700 viewfinder .. still no love .. the sensor needs a direct torch light aimed at the sensor to light up the cinetronic Tally..

We can send you a standard tally board, but you would have to add a resistor to the tally sensor cable to set the sensitivity.

[chris bangma]

I don't necessarily have the time or resources to make these for the masses. But I think somebody could make a small profit off of a short, intermediate cable that goes between the Tally Port and Tally Cable on the Cinelive to offer a sensitivity adjustment potentiometer. Or would a small intermediate module that plugs into the Monitor Port and passes through all other Monitor functions be better? Similar to the PDL form factor..

This would actually be quite small, probably 1/2" square. The biggest part would be the connectors in and out. This is something we could easily make if there is interest. Or a possibility would be a complete tally sensor with the adjustment built in, if you think there is demand for this.

[Mike Germond SOC]

I certainly think it's an important function left out of the Cinelive for live ops to adapt photo sensors to a multitude of monitors (not just the Cinetronic). Perhaps others will chime in with their thoughts..

[Tommy Stork]

I certainly think it's an important function left out of the Cinelive for live ops to adapt photo sensors to a multitude of monitors (not just the Cinetronic). Perhaps others will chime in with their thoughts..

The PRO Cinelive electronics are wired with a fully operational tally system. PRO is a rep for Transvideo and the Cinelive tally system is wired to work seamlessly with those monitors. And it does, (as evidenced by the many operators using the Cinelive/Transvideo combo). Additionally there are operators using Cinetronic monitors in live/broadcast that are happy as little piss clams using the Cinelive tally system.

[Mike Germond SOC]

Again, I don't own the Cinelive electronics. I customized my PRO2 electronics to accomplish a similar feat before Cinelive was released (I like the potentiometer and voltage comparator built into the sled). I'm glad you chimed in, because it seems odd that we haven't seen this question more often if it was a big issue.

Edited March 31, 2014 by Mike Germond

[JobScholtze]

I bought a betz tally unit. It has a small potentio pot in there, so i can adjust on the fly. Works with torches or very little lights. Love it, adjusts all tally's out there. Ask them, the have solutions for you

[Osvaldo Silvera SOC]

I wish my Transvideo HD6 Classic Tally worked ith my CineLive. I do believe it's my Monitor as I'm told by the folks at Transvideo that the Cinemonitor HD6 Classic could not function with the tally being triggered via the 8 pin lemo connector unless it was modified. I shipped my HD6 Classic ( Blue knob) to Transvideo. they worked on it, updated some software, wired some stuff up and shipped it back very quickly I might ad and at no charge. Still nothing. I just recently tried a Transvideo Evolution series HD8 with the cine live and nothing. no Tally, The top stage sensor that terry made works fine, It has a Sensor and two LED's, that part of it works perfect.

The moment I plug any of the Lemo 8 to Lemo 8 cables terry recently made me from the Cine Live to the monitor either the HD8 Evolution or HD6 Classic) and flip the On/Off switch on the rear of the monitor...The Tally lights connected up on the top stage turn on and stay on, no matter what setting is on the monitors or if the sensor is covered or exposed. Been playing with this for MONTHS. I'm trying it out with a couple of other Monitors this next week to eliminate the cine live sled and electronics from the equation. If I can't get it resolved I'm flying to LA with everything until it gets resolved, My Cine Live sled is great I love the way it handles and flies, but I cant use it for anything LIVE. On my Prolite HD I have a lower base connector as a Tally Out, so I just plug in a cable with a red LED at the end of it, and velcro it to the monitor anywhere. That works fine, but I rather use the Internal Tally in the Monitor. And on the Cine Live there is no Lower stage tally out option to do this. very frustrating.... I'll make the rounds and visit PRO, Transvideo, Terry and Cinetronic and I'm sure with everyones collective brain power it will get resolved. Just sucks it will cost $800 in flights and a rental car and time to get it fixed.

[Jens Piotrowski SOC]

http://shop.artemis-hd.com/index.php?sid=39e465c65500a16b0ab9fb6c502b3e45&cl=alist&cnid=e21b0bfb7807214e3254eb4fc516dd9c

 

have you tried these options from Artemis? maybe you can modify a cable?

 

you should contact Curt @ Artemis, he is very knowledgeable

 

http://www.artemis-hd.de/13.0.html

[chris bangma]

The problem with the transvideo, is that it feeds out a voltage on the tally line, and it is looking for this line to be shorted to ground. The cinelive feeds a voltage when the tally is on. So basically you have both trying to feed each other, which doesn't work. You would need a relay between the cinelive and transvideo. When the tally light is on, the relay will close, and connect the 2 lines on the transvideo monitor.

[Jens Piotrowski SOC]

What i don't understand is that PRO is selling Transvideo Monitors and according to Tommy's post they work together just fine? So what's not working properly here?

[Osvaldo Silvera SOC]

I do believe that Many many HD6 and HD8 in the Evolution line are working fine with the Cine Live. As far as I have been told, the Classic was not set up to work with the Tally being triggered via the 8 pin lemo accessory port. That is why I went and found an HD8 transvideo evolution to test it out. It may be the cable, and it may be the monitor, I doubt it's the Cine Live. I'll know more Monday afternoon as I'll be testing the Cinelive with a couple of monitors hopefully.

My Transvideo HD6 monitor was at GPI for a month or more and it was not working over there, so I had it sent back. I just want to see that My Sled transfers the signal to another transvideo monitor, or even a smalHD monitor.

 

It will be solved, I'm confident of that.

Today I will try testing the signal out of pins 7 and 8 on the sled when the sensor up above is active to see what's happening.

[Osvaldo Silvera SOC]

Alrighty then...

Seems there is something in the Monitor that back feeds power to the 8 pin Lemo.

I am getting varying voltage from the Monitor out Lemo on the sled itself, depending how much light it put to the sensor cable on the top stage. So that's working.

 

I plug my cables into my gen 1 Cinetronic which does not have a tally and the top sensor cable with attached LED lights works as it should up top. But when I plug the Transvideo HD6 Classic monitor into it, the top LED lights stay lit, no matter if the sensor is covered or not.

so as Chris mentioned there is voltage from the monitor going to the Pin 8 or even 7, I'll have to check and see. stay tuned.

[Osvaldo Silvera SOC]

OK... here is the tests I performed today.

 

Went over to John Perry's sled, a Phantom V with a Cinemonitor HD8, his tally is being triggered just fine thru the 8 pin Accesory plug. I unplug his 8 pin lemo cable and HD feed, and plug it into my Cinemonitor HD6.....Nothing, Doesn't even power up, NADA. We flip the cable from the 12V mode to the 24v mode,(Tiffen thing, I didn;t even know of this possibility) and still nothing....doesn't even power up my monitor.

Now I try My 8 pin lemo cable on his sled to my monitor, Turns the monitor on just fine, but no tally, either in high or low., So I'm thinking monitor...

Now I want to test my Cine Live, so I plug His monitor to My Cine Live with my cable, turns on just fine, It triggers the tally up on the sensor to turn on and stay on..

 

So I have yet to get my sled to trigger a Tally light on a Transvideo monitor. So far I've tried it with 2 Transvideo HD8 Evolution and one Transvideo HD6 Classic version and nothing...

 

..........

Luckily I still have a Peter Abraham Tally that's worked fine for 10 years for when I use the Cine Live. But for now, the Cine Live will just chill in the closet. The prolite HD has a lower stage Tally only lemo that I can just plug in an LED and velcro it to the monitor, I just rather use the option that's wired into the sled....if I can get it to work. Going to drive like 2.5 hours next week to meet up with an operator who has a Cine Live and terry west Sensor cable and a Transvideo HD8 that does work to test out some stuff again. here's to tenacity and a never give up attitude!...Oh BOY!

[Justin Besser]

For such a seemingly simple function, seems to be quite complex..

I use the zalex tally system which I initially bought with the intention of being my backup..

Still trying to work out what is going on with my cinetronic..

 

[William Demeritt]

Ozzie: doing a quick search, the Ultra2 has a different pinout on the 8-pin LEMO for monitor than the PRO. I think it's safe to assume the pinout diagram for the 8-pin LEMO on the Shadow V would likewise match the other Tiffen sleds?

 

Ultra 2 MON LEMO

1: Pwr Gnd

2: +12v Battery

3: Video

4: Video Gnd

5: RX-Data

6: Tally

7: +24v Battery

8: TX-data

 

GPI PRO CineLive MON LEMO

1: Pwr Gnd

2: 12 VDC

3: VIDEO

4: VIDEO GND

5: <<DEAD>>

6: <<DEAD>>

7: Tally

8: Tally Gnd

 

I unplug his 8 pin lemo cable and HD feed, and plug it into my Cinemonitor HD6.....Nothing, Doesn't even power up, NADA. We flip the cable from the 12V mode to the 24v mode,(Tiffen thing, I didn;t even know of this possibility) and still nothing....doesn't even power up my monitor.

 

To me, this sounds like something finicky with the HD6. It has the same pin diagram as the HD8, and with John's LEMO, it should power up. I don't know much about the CineMonitor HD6, but I ask: does it need to be set to know to accept power over the accessory port? Might there be some issue with your HD6? It seems to be the most temperamental of the bunch. Perhaps a good test (if you can still find John) is put your monitor on his sled with his cable and power the HD6 thru the 4-pin XLR power, and if it powers on, test the tally. That would isolate some sort of power irregularity?

 

 

 

Now I try My 8 pin lemo cable on his sled to my monitor, Turns the monitor on just fine, but no tally, either in high or low., So I'm thinking monitor...

 

Your 8-pin LEMO works on John's Shadow because the 12v power and PWR GND match the GPI PRO. Powers the monitor, but the tally doesn't match. The Shadow's MON LEMO is tally on pin 6 (not sure which is ground???), but GPI PRO is tally on pin 7 and ground on 8.

 

 

Now I want to test my Cine Live, so I plug His monitor to My Cine Live with my cable, turns on just fine, It triggers the tally up on the sensor to turn on and stay on..

 

His monitor on your sled with your cable works because:

 

CineMonitor HD8 MON LEMO

1: GND

2: 10-36V PWR

3: Y/CVBS 2

4: GND VIDEO

5: Pr

6: Pb

7: Run

8: Gnd Run

 

Your cable was made for a GPI PRO sled where all that really matters are 1/2/7/8, or 1+2 = power, and 7+8 = tally. The HD8 is set up exactly that way, so it works.

 

So, moral of the story: his HD8 with your cable on your sled works, but your HD6 with the same pin diagram doesn't. Cable works as it should, sled seems to work as it should with another monitor. To me, that points to the HD6 as a culprit.

 

 

 

My Transvideo HD6 monitor was at GPI for a month or more and it was not working over there, so I had it sent back.

 

Did you mean it was "not working over there" in that the tally and all wasn't working, or the monitor itself wasn't working? Perhaps a Transvideo guru can chime in with what might be happening here?

 

 

So I have yet to get my sled to trigger a Tally light on a Transvideo monitor.

 

I thought John's HD8 worked on your CineLive with your 8-pin LEMO?