WiFi Video Transmitter

[Stephen Consentino]

I received "the-boxx" a few days ago, which is another new wifi video transmitter.

 

 

Has anyone else used the new wifi system "The-Boxx" I am looking at buying this system and would like some more feedback before I drop that much cash.....

 

I know it has half-second delay which I'm willing to work around, to get the great picture quality.

 

The-Boxx

 

Thanks,

Chris "need a wireless system" Konash

 

 

Chris-

I just had a demo of the BOXX today in NYC. It is incredible. I walked all over our set on the SiverCup Stage and even into a all Stainless Steel walk in freezer on our set and it NEVER broke up. I even walked the full length of the stage and it never broke up unitl I left the second airtight door out of the stage (at which point it started to freeze some). This is incredible range. The picture was absolutely flawless. Even our video assist operator couldn't believe it wasn't hard wired. THE ONLY drawback is the 12 frame audio delay. This is probably totally acceptable in all but an occasional feature film scenario. Still, I think it is acceptable, especially given the video quality of the image. Personally, I think I'm going to buy!

 

Stephen Consentino

[Chris Konash]

Thank you for your post. I am now even more excited to receive mine.

 

Talked to Scott @ the-boxx today and it should be here by April 18th. So if you ever need it around NJ/NY/NYC let me know, I'm just across the river.

 

Thanks Again Stephen!!!!

 

Chris Konash

[Scott Walker]

Thanks for the feed back guys. I really appreciate it and keep it coming (good or bad). We want ideas on what you guys need and want in a system and I will do my best to incorporate it.

Hope to see you all at NAB!

 

Scott Walker

scott@boxx.tv

+44 7798526766

[Jordan Rubin]

THE ONLY drawback is the 12 frame audio delay. This is probably totally acceptable in all but an occasional feature film scenario.

 

Allow me to disagree.

 

The 12-frame delay is a huge issue on a feature film when any kind of precise action needs to be queued by a monitor. What if your DP is seated in front of the video village handling an iris control handset ? Mind you he may not be judging his T-stop by the monitor, but the timing of the iris pull. What if a focus puller glances at his LCD which may be velcroed to his handset to time his rack changes ? What if a series of lighting changes need to be queued by the monitor ? What if an AD uses a monitor to move a bunch of extras the exact moment something happens on screen ? What if you're hard-mounted on a dolly and your dolly grip needs to feather his move and adjust the ending frame by his small monitor ? What about the poor sound mixer who's watching his monitor to see what the camera sees ? And most sound mixers will see the boom encroaching the frame on their monitor and save the shot by informing the boom operator through their private intercom to back off. And of course the need for an audio delay system to sync the sound to the video village headphones and video assist recorder. And what if the director suddenly decides to stay close to you for a take and use a clamshell ?

 

Guys, get ready to carry two transmitters on your rig all the time, and have two sets of receivers set-up and running.

 

Also, this system is completely unusable in a situation where there is loud playback or ambient noise, like in a singing scene, a dance scene, a scene with a live band or orchestra, or a gun-heavy action sequence. What are you gonna do, give everybody noise-cancelling headphones to isolate them from the ambient noise ?

 

Can you imagine how funny it's gonna be attempting to use this system on a music video ?

 

I asked more than a few commercial directors if they would rather work around the delay in exchange with a perfect image, and everybody said no. As long as they are in the same room with the talent, it would be too complicated and disorienting.

 

Technology should be able to advance and facilitate our way of working, not the other way around.

 

Jordan

[RobVanGelder]

Though I don't know Jordan as he is new here and has not introduced himself yet to us (work, experience, etc), he absolutely hits the hammer on the nail here!

 

We were and are already complaining with the delay from HD to SD converters, which is probably between 4 and 7 frames, now we have a system here that delays even more, according to Howard on the earlier postings about the Boxx, 10 frames, so any cue's are received or given too late.

 

A system with a high price like this should be able to overcome these major short comings, to say it is acceptable is not good.

 

I don't want to bash the system, but you really cannot explain any director or producer, or DP or Focus puller or Boom-man that he/she has to cue in advance, 10 frames, almost half a second is really too much for anyone who has to cue from a monitor.

 

<_<

[Jordan Rubin]

Another thing I failed to mention in my post.

 

Can you imagine the infinite complexities of being part of a two-camera or a three-camera set-up, when the other cameras are hard-wired and you?ll be transmitting your steadicam image with a 12-frame delay ? Any director or script supervisor will get nauseous trying to figure out what?s happening, if they let their eyes wandering from one monitor to the other.

 

Jordan

[Scott Walker]

I agree these are all very valid points. There are many systems on the market that have less then 4 frame delay. If you are willing to pay $150,000 you can get below 1 frame now.

This all said, ?Gray?s Anatomy? have beed using 2 of our systems for over 6 months now. They also had reservation at first but now would never go back to analogue.

It's a good point that this will not ?replace? your current system but be another tool to better show off your work.

[RobVanGelder]

So if it is technically possible to get it within the 4-5 frames delay that people are nowadays accepting with HD, then you have a system that is "good enough" !

 

That's the whole point, you need to upgrade your Boxx system to that level, in my opinion.

 

I know that there are many occasions where you don't really feel (in video village) that there is a delay, however, as an operator, investing in an expensive transmission system and therefore responsable for the whole chain behind it (from crew to director), we want a system that is also suitable for work that requires a much shorter response time.

[Scott Walker]

I can offer 4-5 frames, but the cost would be around $10,000USD. Would operators be prepared to pay that that type of amount?

To date, I believe the cheapest system of the market at 4 frames is around $30,000.

[Tate Chmielewski]

Hey Scott (or anybody else that can help)

I've got some work coming up soon that i'll need a wireless system and looking around at different ones boxx looks good

interested in knowing the prices... i saw back on the thread 3600 is that still right?

and what places i could buy from?

 

thanks!

[Dan Coplan]

Consideration for alternative to the Modulus (broadcast transmitter):

 

http://rf-links.com/video_senders.htm

 

These guys have a variety of options covering a range of budgets. I opted for the $700 5-channel (65-69) transmitter (SPX-68G). $650 for the transmitter, an extremely gratifying $50 for the PRO cable.

 

PROS

------

Very lightweight and compact

Tunes in to both NTSC and PAL

Very affordable

 

CONS

-------

Tuning is done by turning an inset screw with a screwdriver and rocking back and forth until you get the signal just right (this is how you can get both NTSC and PAL). You can't just dial it in like a Modulus. Once you're tuned in however, it's not much of an issue and I believe there is less activity in the upper UHF band.

 

NEUTRAL

-----------

Compared it to a Modulus 3000 and it appears to work more or less the same.

 

They do have higher output options and transmitters where you don't have to turn a little screw.

 

Do not order from RF-Links because their return policy positively sucks. Rather, contact Mike Wilder at Image Gear, Inc. (tell him Dan Coplan sent you :)

 

He seems to be a cool guy and offers a reasonable return policy.

 

http://imagegearinc.com/

 

If any of you check out these transmitters, I'd be interested in hearing your experience. I'm currently working with Mike to see if I can make the transmitter he sent me a little more Steadicam-friendly, but it's hard to argue with the price.

 

Dan Coplan

[Lawrence Karman]

\This all said, ?Gray?s Anatomy? have beed using 2 of our systems for over 6 months now. They also had reservation at first but now would never go back to analogue.

 

 

Sorry but I go in on Grey's a few times a month and they are not using this system this year. Too much fuss over the delay I was told and the picture broke up as well.

[RonBaldwin]

Lawrence is correct - it wasn't as great as we had hoped and the delay was a major pain. When it broke up, the picture would freeze. I can't tell you how many takes had to be re-done because of this. When it worked (most of the time) it worked well, but the delay drove us all koo-koo.

 

Lawrence, say hi to everyone for me!

 

Ron B

[Lawrence Karman]

Lawrence, say hi to everyone for me!

 

Ron B

 

 

I will. Have fun on Jerico; HD, ugh.

[Guest Jeremy Hawkins]

I would like to humbly suggest my line of products for mid to low price range AV units. Those who have used them tell me that they completely outclass the Canatrans, Modulus, etc in their workability. They are lighter, cheaper, have a much lower power draw, and are very adaptable and can connect directly to Anton/Bauer power packs. Additionally, we can offer a repeater to get you around trouble spots and/or increase your range. Perhaps this is why both VER and Wexler have a one month waiting list to rent our units.

 

I will not say that they are the ultimate solution for all of your possible needs but they are certainly accessable and easy to use.

 

My units can be found here:

 

AV Wireless Technologies

 

 

As to the Boxx product, I must commend the people working on it. You have done an excellent job of balancing delay to cost effectiveness, a challenge that I too have struggled with as I examined the possibility of providing a digital solution to accompany my analog ones. As a company President myself, I know that that was not an easy solution to find. Kudos, to you and your team and I wish you luck. I do not see us as competitors, but as complimentary. Your system is better than mine for some applications and mine are better than yours for others. The question is then left to the operators. What kind of situation are you shooting in most often? Will the delay make the shoot difficult for you? If so, consider analog. If the delay is not a problem for the aggregate of your shoots, the high quality of the boxx video is the way to go.

 

-Jeremy Hawkins