Moderators Alec Jarnagin SOC Posted June 1, 2006 Moderators Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 Guido, Its probably me. The DP/Director is a good friend of mine, but they keep moving the dates and I'm day-playing on a couple of films. As of now though, I'm going to try and do it (low budget spot, but like I said a friend of mine). I'm just curious to try the Hands Free for a few shots. They'll also have a golf car and some other toys if things get too whacky. Cheers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Andrew Jansen Posted June 2, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 Hi Itsi, Sorry I didn't get to use it on the David Blaine show, but it was great to take it for a spin though ! Hope to put it to work soon. Andrew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Guido Lux Posted June 15, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted June 15, 2006 Hi Alec! When will the shot be?!Try and get your hands on the handfree (nice wordplay,huh?!) a couple of days before the shoot!It sure takes some getting used to and when you wanna step on it with the rig its best if you feel comfortable with the handsfree before that!But then you'll not want to step of again!Its so much fun shooting from the handsfree and it really works like a charm! Reihard (ULIKs partner) will be at cinegear!So if you go let him know that you tried it before and have another go...maybe even with the hardmount! Too bad I can't go but I'm extremely busy here in germany working at the soccer world cup (35 days...12 hours a day).110 degrees...I'm already tired and I still have 3,5 weeks to go!! Hope we get a chance to talk again soon! Guido Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Alec Jarnagin SOC Posted June 16, 2006 Moderators Report Share Posted June 16, 2006 Guido, Did the job and been meaning to post, but haven't found the time (or energy). I only had the chance to play with the Hands Free for a couple of hours a couple of weeks before the job and then for a bit the morning of the job. All went fine, but I should note that we had a golf cart too and indeed I used it for more shots than the Hands Free because I'm not incredibly comfortable with the Hands Free yet. The Hands Free worked very well for tracking shots of our jogger when I was on even terrain traveling in profile to him or behind him. For proceeding shots and long lens shots, I opted for the tried and true golf cart. While on the subject of proceeding, the flaw I see with the Hands Free is that you either travel backwards (no thanks) or do Don Juan. While I'm not as adverse to Don Juan as some, I much prefer missionary to achieve the grace with which I'm accustom. When combining this with fast tracking long lens shots, I just don't want to be navigating; regardless of how good I got with the Hands Free, I'd still rather ride a cart. The Hands Free is pretty cool though and for some situations (still haven't figured out what all of them are) it is great. Five(?) years ago when I did the promotional video for Brookstone and Segway (split the job with Brant Fagen because of availability) I came to the conclusion the best way to drive a Segway for Steadicam would be with a gimbal mounted remote control (sort of like the Ultra's stage). Having used the foot pedals on the Hands Free, I think I believe this more than ever. When standing on a moving vehicle (either hard or soft mounted, but especially soft mounted) our foot placement and balance are critical. To have this compromised to any degree in order to steer the Hands Free seems a shame. Sure, you get used to it, but I just think it is an unnecessary compromise. This is most evident when one considers the learning curve between a conventional Segway and the Hands Free. Almost anyone can get very comfortable on a standard Segway in minutes (granted some of that is because you have something to hold on to with your hands), but with the Hands Free you're losing some of the freedom of your feet. Now, another interesting thing that comes into play, having pedals brings up the auto response your brain has to automobile pedals. One has to quickly retrain the brain to remember that these pedals are not gas & brake! There are rumors that Segway will be introducing a wireless steering control of their own and if this happens, I have to think it will make our lives a lot easier. Also, a lot cheaper, as we will be able to buy the product directly from Segway and have their backing. Time will tell though as this is just a rumor. In the meantime, I know I can rent a Hands Free here in NYC for the times I think it is the right tool for the job. Overall, the day was a success and I did have a blast on the Hands Free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulEdwards Posted June 17, 2006 Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Alex, Was interested to hear your comments re. the 'Handsfree' and I have a similar view. I can see that for some applications the handsfree aspect would be essential but I don't think that pedals are the best steering solution for Steadicam use. I would prefer to have both feet firmly on the platform with a steering twistgrip near the gimbal. I'm working on this idea at the moment. I agree that the preceding shot is the trickiest. However, this last week we've been shooting rickshaw shots on a station platform and the trickiest shots were the chasing shots........which would have been ideal on the Segway, so I think it's a matter of 'horses for courses'. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Guido Lux Posted June 17, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Hi Alec,hi Paul! Maybe the gimbalsteering is a good idea!When I was talking to Reinhard (one of the handsfree guys) he asked me if I thought it would be good to have the gimbalsteering!At that time I thought it wasn't such a great idea but now I think I will tell him to make one to try out!He will be at cinegear so mabe if you guys go, you tell him again yourself!!He loves to get tips from ops because they are the users and he doesn't know to much about operating! So maybe there will be a gimbalsteering in a couple of weeks(maybe months). And it totally true the the handsfree is not the right tool for each and every shot but doesn't that go for almost every steadicam accessory!? I also have both, a golfcart and the handsfree and there is a right time for each tool! I'll let you guys know when Reinhart has the gimbalsteering availeble for tryouts! Guido "but what will I do if I need a zoomcontrol on my gimbal" Lux Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Alec Jarnagin SOC Posted June 17, 2006 Moderators Report Share Posted June 17, 2006 Paul, Guido, Yes, indeed the Hands Free is great for some shots - following, it makes TONS of sense. Regarding the gimbal steering. Obviously, the reliability of this wireless unit needs to be beyond perfect! No room for error or interference here. Seriously, it needs to have a safety mechanism built in that slows and stops the Hands Free (safely) if it looses the signal. A micro hard wired cable needs to be available as a back up. As for zooming? I thought about that too, but this is where our assistant comes in for most shots. Live events? I think I'd rather figure out dealing with a second controller than be forced to use my feet to steer all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Charles Papert Posted August 15, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted August 15, 2006 "The maker of the Segway scooter on Monday unveiled the second generation of its self-balancing electric one-person vehicle. The redesigned scooter allows the rider to steer by leaning to the right or left, rather than by turning the handlebars." http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews....C1-ArticlePage3 Could be very interesting for next-gen hands-free Steadicam setup? Probably a lot cheaper (less modification)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Afton Grant Posted August 15, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted August 15, 2006 I was happy to read that same announcement. The improvement follows nicely in the footsteps of its predecessor with regards to its intuitive operation. It is said to be even easier to operate. And it comes with an alarm! It's kind of comical to picture an op walking back to his stand after a shot and reaching into his pocket to pull out a small key fob....... "boop BEEP". Pricing is reported to be $4995 for the i2, and $5495 for the "off-road" x2 model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Alec Jarnagin SOC Posted August 15, 2006 Moderators Report Share Posted August 15, 2006 I think this will be a huge leap forward - forget that gimbal mount control! Just think, hard mount the rig and relax. No need to mess with your feet except to get comfortable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members WillArnot Posted August 20, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted August 20, 2006 So is this something different to the handsfree model we have been seeing for the past year or so at the Trade shows where the left / right is controlled with foot pedals?? As fairly easy as the handsfree / foot pedal was to control. it did get tiring to have to always keep your weight on your heels so as not to inadvertantly turn by pressing with the front of the foot. To turn by simply leaning the tower held between your knees seems like a great thing, as you could keep your feet firmly planted on the floor. Safer I should think as you no longer have to balance on your heels. Is this what Charles is meaning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members nealnorton Posted August 21, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 The Hands Free segway seems like a dangerous solution to a problem that doesn't exist. At the point that a grip/spotter can not keep up with me and the steadicam, I hand off navigating to a person who is only responsible for that task - dolly grip, driver, etc. I am concerned that as speed increases, so does the likelyhood of a serious accident. I don't want to drive the golfcart and operate at the same time for obvious reasons. Is the segway really that different? Do you really trust that extra in her car? Haven't you ever seen a "lock-up" fail and have someone drive a Mule into your path? No bogies ever appear out of nowhere right in your path? Is there an application where the segway is the best solution? Is that solution so compelling that it is worth the risks involved? I know we all take risks from time to time. I try to keep life threatening or career ending risks to a minimum and I always do everything I can to stack the deck in my favor. Be careful guys. Neal Norton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members chris fawcett Posted August 21, 2006 Author Premium Members Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Hi Neal, You would be surprised how intuitive the handsfree feels. It is another tool that has its uses, and it's not just for speeding along, it is great for 'creeping' shots too. If you check the video under 'camtransport' at http://www.handsfree-transporter.com/ you'll see a gig that suited it perfectly. Best wishes, Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Brad Grimmett Posted August 21, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted August 21, 2006 Is there an application where the segway is the best solution? Is that solution so compelling that it is worth the risks involved? Neal Norton There is footage of someone shooting from a handsfree in the middle of a marching band. To me, that was the perfect use. You couldn't have gotten another vehicle in there to do it and the handsfree was very manuverable amongst all of those musicians. Also, it seems to work pretty well at the World Cup games as well, but I guess you could have a golfcart in that situation too. I don't think there are inherent risks. I think it's only risky if you do risky things, but, like steadicam itself, it's not perfect for every shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Premium Members Jerry Holway Posted August 24, 2006 Premium Members Report Share Posted August 24, 2006 So is this something different to the handsfree model we have been seeing for the past year or so at the Trade shows where the left / right is controlled with foot pedals?? As fairly easy as the handsfree / foot pedal was to control. it did get tiring to have to always keep your weight on your heels so as not to inadvertantly turn by pressing with the front of the foot. To turn by simply leaning the tower held between your knees seems like a great thing, as you could keep your feet firmly planted on the floor. Safer I should think as you no longer have to balance on your heels. Is this what Charles is meaning? Will, I've found it's best to have your weight on your feet normally, with both feet lightly pressing down on both pedals all the time, as the steering is a rocker mechanism. You get much more control, comfort, stability, etc. It took awhile to figure this out.... As for the Segway's version two... I'm a bit worried that moving the Steadicam laterally will cause the Segway to turn, or that moving your weight to one foot (for step ons or step offs, moving blood around, etc.) might also cause the unit to turn, or that doing doing some of the tight turns might be more tricky, having to lean harder and still stay upright. However, without trying it, it's hard to say. As for a problem that did not exist... On many shots, giving up the navigation, working out the timing with a grip or grips, controlling the accelerations and the like is a real pain - and the Handsfree is just the ticket. On other shots (especially as the speed increases beyond a mild run), I appreciate not worrying about navigation. But imagine walking up a slight incline for 100 yards, nice tracking shot... or going full bore at the actor, halting within inches (a foot?) of his face, all with great precision, no bounce, and you control the speed, the acceleration curves, and the rig has no tendancy to fly out of your hands. Or working a parade... For these sorts of things, the Handsfree is a great tool. Two more thing about the Handsfree version: the limiting of turning speed vs. tracking speed - which the std. Segways do not have ? is crucial for Steadicam applications, as is the adjustable, spring-loaded support mount between your thighs... without these done right, the Segway won't work well for us. Jerry Holway handsfree enthusiast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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